be juft as they were willing to be; they would be at liberty to try their numbers merely on the third reading. Rt. hon. 7. Rt. Hon. T. Townshend denied the conclufions drawn by the Townfbend. learned gentleman who spoke laft. He faid, the gentlemen Sir George on this fide of the Houfe might difapprove of the bill, the claufe, and amendment; and yet wifh, if the bill must pass, to have the rigour of it qualified, and rendered lefs noxious and mischievous. He could eafily conceive, without any great ftore of profeffional knowledge, by the aid of his own experience, that a perfon might difapprove of a bill, or think it unneceffary; that a claufe might be moved to take the fting out of it; that an amendment might be moved to that claufe, which confiderably abated its value; and yet, if by the ftrength of numbers he forefaw the bill would pass, he might be against the amendment and the bill, and ftill wish and vote for retaining the claufe, though, on the ultimate queftion, he was pre-determined to give a negative to the third reading. Such was precifely the predicament he ftood in himself, and fuppofed that many of his friends ftood in the fame; confequently he could neither adopt the reasoning nor deduction of the learned gentleman who fpoke laft; for he could eafily reconcile his difapprobation of the bill and amendment to his hearty approbation of the claufe. Sir George Savile expreffed the pleafure he enjoyed on what (all circumstances confidered) he deemed a victory over fome who would wish to eftablish a fpecies of dominion in this country, more oppreffive and arbitrary than what was endured by the fubjects of any defpotic country in Europe. He affigned his reafons why he thought fo, and fat down with declaring, that he fhould give his negative against the third reading of the bill. The clause, or rather rider, being agreed to, the queftion was put, on the third reading, and the houfe divided; ayes 112; noes 35. After which, the queftion was put, "That this bill do pafs," which was agreed to without a divifion. Ordered, North America. Ordered, that there be laid before the Houfe an account of the investment of 799,9731. 18s. 5d. in the purchase of Spanish and Portugal coins, for the ufe and fervice of his Majefty's forces in Agreeable to this order, the following paper was laid upon the table. A. 1777. 65262 14 8 19600 15 6 Do. Do. 5590 6 6 1263 0 Ditto 14887 oz. 14 dwts. 18 grs. at 77s. 11d. 58000 2 10 43532 O Feb. Do. at par 260 Ditto 15595 oz. odwts. at 78s. 2d. 12 grs. 60950 11 2 March. Do. do. 9479 Ditto 23916 oz. 16 dwts. 18 grs. April. Halifax. do. 384 O at 78s. 6d. 93873 11 8 May. Do. do. 39447 5 3 Guineas June. Quebec. under par 11 5600 Q at par 27565 9 9 340000 0 DEBATE S. 637687 15 10 168143 11 4 G 805831 7 2 i Sept. Quebec. do. 8600 Do do. 2886 9 The order of the Houfe of Commons was to account for the investment of 799,973l. 18s. 5d. which this account exceeds in the fum of 58571. 168143 11 4 8d. 9d. and this excefs could not be avoided, as it arifes from the broken fums of the bills of exchange. HARLEY and DRUMMOND. Mr. Alex. No debate. February 18. February 19.. The House in committee on allowing lumber to be carried in British ships to the Weft India islands. Mr. Pennant in the chair. Mr. Alexander Douglas. Q. Is he acquainted with the present state of the WestIndia iflands? A. I have feen letters from thence. Q. Has he any eftate there? A. Yes. Q. What are his prefent concerns in the islands? A. I have an estate in Grenada and Tobago. I have lived twenty years in St. Kitts. Q. What is the present price of ftaves in the Weft-India inlands? A. I faw a letter, dated December laft, from St. Chriftopher's, it was not directed to me; in which the writer says, that he bought ftaves at 151. per 1000 currency, and could fell them for 30l. and deals at 251. and could fell them for 50l. Q. Does he mean those ftaves for rum, or for sugar casks ? A. Don't know which. Q. How much are staves raised in price within these two years? A. Now between 171. and 181. fterling; and even those are bad, and won't answer the purpose: the fame two years ago were fold at 61. Q. Is any fcarcity of ftaves apprehended? A. I faw a letter from St. Chriftopher's, from a manager there, that he has not a ftave left, and none to be procured for money. The letter was dated 28 December. Q. Whether the cultivation of the islands, will not be highly affected by the want of ftaves ? A. Certainly will; every thing of lumber, there is as three or four to one of what it was. Q. Does he not know that the fale of flaves is as much leffened of late? A. Yes; the price is much fallen. Q. Does not the high price of ftaves difable the planters from giving fo high a price for flaves ? A. Yes. No plantation can be carried on at the price ftaves now are. Q. Has Q. Has he been used to import into the Weft-India islands linens from Europe? A. Formerly. Q. What fort were used? A. The linens used there were chiefly from Ireland. Q. Are any linens from the Baltic or Stetin much used there? : A. Some but a very trifle, unlefs by a lady that now and then fmuggles a piece. We can be fupplied by the Dutch and French with foreign linen. Q. Whether fuppofe the Weft-India iflands can be supplied with ftaves for dry goods, can they be fupplied with cafks for rum? A. We have tried, but can't find any wood for making the rum cafks. Q. Whence are you fupplied with the fugar cafk? A. I apprehend chiefly from hence of late, fince the American fupply was ftopped. I heard of a few from Halifax, and a few from the Miffiffippi; but I don't understand they can be many. Our accounts from the Weft-India islands are very different; fome fay there is no want; others fay, there is no fupply. I believe the want is very great. Q. From whence did the ftaves come before the present troubles? A. From New-York and Philadelphia; from the latter by far the greatest number. The accounts from the fame iflands are very different; but the price fhews the want. Withdrew. t Mr. Molyneux, a member in his place, being asked as to Mr. Moly the state of the islands, reads a letter, dated Jan. 1, 1777. "I am in daily expectation of the arrival of the plantation ftores---Provifions, boards, and staves, are much wanted; the two latter more particularly, fo as there is not any on your property if they do not appear foon, I fhall be at a ftand, as there is none to be purchafed here at any price whatsoever. "Signed, J. CONSTABLE. Chriftopher Heineken, ftave merchant. Q. From what part of Europe does he import ftaves? A. From Stetin and Hamborough, and the other ports of the Baltic. Q. Has not a great increase of staves been required for the ufe of the public? neux. Chriftopher A. Yes; A. Yes; for fending provifions to the army in Ame rica. Q. Has there not been a great increase of the demand for the use of the Weft-India iflands? A. Yes. Q. Whether all thofe demands have not increased the price? A. Yes, very greatly. Q. In what proportion in the last two years? A. Thirty or forty per cent. Q. Has he imported any ftaves from the Mediteranean A. No. Q. Whether he gives direction for the fize? A. No. Q. If he did, would they fend them of those fizes? Q. Whether an order to fend them of half the thickness would be complied with? A. No-I believe they would not be put out of their way. Q. Not in time? A. I hardly think they could. Q. Are the Hamborough ftaves fawed or split? A. Split. Q, Are they dearer than they were fix months ago ? A. Much at the fame; rather dearer: the price rifes every day. Q. Whether any staves are sent directly from the Baltic to the Weft-Indies? A. No. Q. Whether if they were permitted to be sent directly now, it would introduce fmuggling? A. I think it would very much, and be of no advantage to the islands. Q. What would be smuggled from the Baltic ? A. Linen, wool, wines, and feveral other articles. Q. Does he know that they ever ufe woollens from the Baltic, in the Weft-Indies? A. I don't know they do. Q. As to linens ? A. Does not know, but has heard so. Q. Whether before the American troubles, ftaves were imported into London for the ufe of the Weft-Indies? A. Never. |