stantial importance, that this practice found it difficult to act as they might should be adhered to. This was the wish. As another opportunity would first time that the House had been occur for the discussion of this subject, called upon to vote away the public he would for the present refrain from money before the estimates for different going further into the merits of the public services--the army, navy, and question. ordnance-were before them. (Hear). Lord ALTHORP explained. The duties He hoped thewholesome practice of their on sugar would expire on the 5, of predecessorswould not be departed from. April, and it was therefore absolutely He thought the noble lord opposite necessary he should no longer postpone (Lord Althorp) ought to have given the the resolution. He had already stated House some idea of the extent of re- that it would be imprudent to state the mission of taxation to which he meant reduction proposed in taxation before to go. He knew that the present they saw what was to be the amount of financial state of the country did not the revenue. The naval estimates were warrant the expectation, for it would be already on the table. He was not disneither politic nor just, of any large posed to prefer the West India interest remission of taxes. But when the to the interests of other classes, and noble Lord went out of his way to al should be disposed to give them as lude to particular interests (the West much consideration as possible, conIndia for instance) and intimated that sistently with the claims of others. the intentions of Government were Mr. ROBINSON thought the country fixed upon that subject, he thought it was not in a state to admit of any great hard that their interests should be de- remission of taxes ; but he should heretermined upon without affording an after point out to Government the beopportunity of contrasting the degreenefits to be derived from a commutation of relief to be afforded to them with of taxes. Many taxes pressing upon the degree extended to others. Such a the labouring and industrious classes course would be hard as to any interest, might be shifted upon other shoulders. but it was peculiarly hard with re- The hon. Member for Middlesex had ference to an interest which, if asked how they could expect the people any were entitled to courtesy and of the East Indies to consume British attention from its peculiar situa- manufactures, unless they took the tion, undoubtedly it was that interest. sugar of the East in return? He would There were few taxes the remission of ask the hon. Member how they could which would be productive of greater expect the West Indies to take British benefits than the tax upon sugar. Those manufactures, unless Great Britain took only who were acquainted with the their sugar ? habits of the poorer orders could know Mr. WARBURTON thought this a most how completely this article had become linconvenient discussion, when they had one of the necessaries of life with them. I not the whole statement of the public The effect of its reduction or remission, lincome and expenditure before them. therefore, would be a considerable in- He wished to know whether the expericrease of consumption, and a great re- ments instituted respecting the system lief to the mercantile interest, which of bounties and drawbacks had come to was at present overburdened with the any result ? article. It would also give relief to Lord ALTHORP said that the existence another class of persons, who, although of considerable variation had been estanot usually ranked among the poorer (blished, but as yet no sufficient result classes, were, in fact, the poorest class to form the basis of a calculation. in his Majesty's dominions. He, of An hon. Member deprecated the precourse, meant the West India interest. sent discussion. He was a colonist, and (Hear, hear). He well knew that Go- derived all his income from the West vernment were pressed by other, and, Indies. There was no wish on his part perhaps, more powerful interests, and to interfere with the question of the annual renewal of those duties. It was time of night or a fit state of the House in his wish, indead, that the whole ques- which to vote awayfour millions of money tion of their interests should be at once from the pockets of the people. Should placed upon some permanent footing. there be no better relief for the people He could tell the hon. Member for Mid- than had been promised, he feared dlesex that neither those interested in the there would be a convulsive movemeat East nor the West Indies thanked him of distress in the country. for his interference in this question. His Mr. Ruthven thought sufficient nodoing so was another instance of that rice had not been given of the intention ambition to make himself troublesome to impose four millions of taxes. He for which he had so successfully distin- moved that the Chairman should report guished himself in the present Parlia- progress. ment. (Hear, and a laugh).

Mr. FIELDEN said he rose to second Mr. Hume had no difficulty in as the motion. He was asked to concur signing the reason of the hon. Member's in a vote for continuing the duties on complaint of him. The interest to sugar for one year, and he understood which he was attached had been that this would impose taxes on the making a bargain with the Government people to the amount of four millions by which the public interests were to be sterling. On a former evening he had sacrificed. (Cries of “ No, no”). He stated that great distress prevailed in did not want the thanks of the hon. the country; that in a district within Gentleman, He acted for the public twenty miles of his residences, out of a interests, and not the interests of parties. population of about 200,000, there were He was not aware of having given any 50,000 who had not more than 25d. a trouble whatever. (Laughter). He de- day each, for food and clothing. He fied any one to show that he had ever had made up the accounts this day, of been actuated by party or factious mo- the returns made by those who had vitives for the last fifteen years.

sited the families containing these fifty , Captain Dundas thought the new thousand, and these returns showed, members had been unjustly reproached that these fifty thousand had, on an by the hon. Member for Middlesex for average, only 21d. a head, a day, for non-attendance. He must say that such food and clothing, including parish rehad been the attendance of members lief; and that out of the 50,000, there hitherto of all sorts that there had been were little more than 2,000 out of employ. scarcely any possibility of getting seats These poor persons worked hard from in the House. (A laugh). He really did Monday morning till Saturday night, not think it should go forth to the coun-|(those capable of working at least), and try, under the solemn denunciation of this was all they and their families had to the hon. Member for Middlesex, that provide them with food and clothing. the whole body of the new members had These persons had heavy grievances to not done their duty, simply because the complain of. He stood here, as their hon. Member for Oldham (Mr. Cobbett) representative, and he required that was not present. (Laughter). For him their grievances should be redressed, self, he begged leave to say that he had before any grant of supplies should be been, and ever should be, as attentive to made; and he for one should not con• his duties in that House as even the sent to any vote of supplies, until a hon. Member himself.

promise were made that these grievances Mr. FAITHFUL was anxious to set should be redressed. He knew that his aside the motion before the House alto- statements had been contradicted. The gether ; but, as a young member, he hon. Member for Huddersfield, whom was not sufficiently acquainted with the he saw from the votes had obtained forms to know how to do so, and he leave of absence for a fortnight, and should be obliged to the right hon. another hon. Member for the county of Gentleman below him (Mr. Goulburn) Derby, had denied the truth of his lo instruct him. It was not a proper stateinents. But he was prepared to

prove all that he had said on this sub-1 were 40,000 that had not twopence a ject. He was ill acquainted with the head a day for subsistence; and he had forms and rules of the House, but he received letters from two of these gentook that opportunity of setting himself tlemen, since, corroborating what they thus far right with the House. He had had said to him at Halifax. Besides a been here this day now more than ten partial survey had been made since that hours; and he thought that this had j period of families in or near Huddersbeen time enough to sit for the purposes field; and that survey he had received, of legislation, and this alone was a suf which showed, that of 120 families ficient reason for desiring that the Chair-which had been thus visited, and which man should report progress, and ask contained more than 600 persons, the leave to sit again. When the two hon. members had not more than three-half. Gentlemen attempted to throw discredit pence a day each for food and clothing. on his statement, he was in an adjoining He trusted that hon. Gentlemen, when room writing a letter, and he thus lost they came forward to contradict his the opportunity of then rebutting what statements, would be cautious how they they said.

did so; and give the authority and the Mr. STRICKLAND said he had seen names of the parties on whose veracity letters in the newspapers, and he had such contradiction rested. himself received letters, stating that Mr. Potter thought the present was there was not that degree of misery in not the time for this discussion. In his the manufacturing districts as had been opinion, the remission of the soap-tax represented by the hon. Member for would confer the greatest benefit on the Oldham.

poorer orders. Mr. Fielden said the hon. Member Mr. SPRING Rice thought it was for the West Riding of Yorkshire has clear that the supplies should be provided maile some attempt to deny the reality for by some tax. Some hon. Gentleof the distress, which he (the hon. Mem- man thought the reduction of the soap. ber for Oldham), on a former night tax would be the best ; others thought gave his reasons for believing to exist the tax on newspapers should be reat Fluddersfield; and had stated that duced; others were for the reduction of he had seen papers, and had received the sugar.tax. As this was clearly not letters, contradicting the fact of this the fitting occasion for discussing these distress. He, too, (the Member for various subjects, had they not better Oldhamn), har heard of an anonymous vote for the resolution before the coin Jetter in a Leeds newspaper, contra- mitree, and defer the general question dicting this fact, and this communica- of reduction of taxation to another and tion was signed “H.” He should like more appropriate occasion. to know who “H.” is ; and he should! Mr. T. FirZGERALD said a few words like to know the names of the parties which were not audible in the gallery. from whom the hon. Member had re-l Mr. FIELDEN: The right hon. Genceived his letters. This was not the tleman, the Secretary for the Treasurv, way in which he dealt with the House. had said that he understood him (the He gave the House the names of the Member for Oldham) to say, on a persons from whom he had received former night, that the facts he commu. the statement. He told them that the nicated rested on his own knowledge; Thursday before he came to town, he but he now understood that it was not had met, at Halifax, Captain Wood, of so. He wished to set the right hon. Sandal, Mr. William Stocks, jun., of Secretary right on this point. For the Haddersfield, and another gentleman, distress which he said prevailed in Hudwhose name he believed to be Earn- dersfield and the neighbourhood, he shaw; and that those gentlemen had gave the authority, as he had now done, assured him, that in the division of on which he founded that statement. Upper Aggbrigg, containing a popula. But the distress there was not that tion of 103,000, they believed that ihere with which he stated himself to be per

sonally acquainted. He on that night constitutional way of going to work. stated, that personal visits had been Here we are on a rock of adamant; made to a number of families, within here we speak to the nation in clear twenty miles of his residence, contain- and intelligible language. The exing fifty thousand persons; that these penders of our money will find, that persons were employed in the manu. they are not to carry on the concern as facture of silks, of woollen, and of cot- they hitherto have done. ton; and he on that occasion had stated that, so far as regarded those employed in the manufacture of cotton, he could, of his own knowledge, declare that they were in the main correct, and substan


HOUSE of COMMONS. Dr. BALDWIN said that his constituents would not permit him to vote for

Monday, 4. March. any supply of money to the Govern Sir J. WROTTESLEY bore witness to ment to aid them in the establishment the great feeling wbich pervaded all of martial law in Ireland. He must, parts of this country on the subject of therefore, vote for the amendment. I clerical residence. He hoped that that

An hon. Member stated that within | House would take the matter into its a circle of ten miles round Manchester speedy consideration, and compel the the labouring population were as com incumbents to reside in their several fortable as ever they had been. (Hear). benefices. (Hear, hear). The subject of

An hon. Member on the opposition complaint was not a new one; and the reside of the House declared that he had inedy lay in the repeal of an odious and never seen so much distress in his life impolitic act passed about thirty years amongst the labouring classes as within ago. By this act the laws of Henry the last two years. The people in his vill, requiring, upon pain of certain neighbourhood were working on the penalties, the residence of clergymen in lowest possible wages. The tax off their several incumbencies, were abrosugar would be a great relief to the gated ; and that the power of enforclower classes.

ing that residence was placed in the Mr. HUME hoped the hon. Member hands of the bishops, who, he hoped would not persist with his amendment. used it well; but who, he would add, On the bringing up of the report he it could not be expected would be enwould have a better opportunity, in a tirely divested of those kind feelings fuller house, of discussing the question. for friends and partialities for relations

Mr. Ruthven persisted in his amend. which might some how or other interment, and the gallery was cleared for a fere with its operation. (Hear). He division, when there appeared

would not detain the House longer.

He would only repeat the substanee of For the amendment .... 8

his observations, inat those who paid Against it ............86

the clergy, the parishioners, should Majority ..........-78

have at the least, in commion justice, The resolution was then agreed to. the power of enforcing their residence The remaining resolutions were also atnong them. (Hear). • agreed to, and the House having re-l Mr. COBBETT : I have not been inate

sumed, the report was ordered to be tentive to the operation of this act albrought up on Thursday..

luded to by the hon. Baronet, nor have I been heedless of his observations. But

I will take the credit to myself to say, The people of England are greatly that I anticipated him long since ; for indebted to Mr. Ruthyen (Mr. O'Con- when that act was passed, I said that nell's colleague for Dublin), for his con- in a few years it would destroy the duct upon this occasion. This is the church of England. (Hear, hear). This

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act was brought in by Sir William Scott, any worldly calling. Since they have
the then member for the University of taken to trafficking, they have sunk
Oxford ; and the intention of intro- very much indeed in the estimation of
ducing it to the House was to quash a the public. Indeed, if I wanted a good
nunber of actions then pending against jobber to go to fairs or markets for
the clergy in various parts of England me-to buy sheep or to become a
and Wales, for non-residence, under the i pig-poker, I would employ a parson in
23. of Henry VIII. I shall have a preference to any other, and I would
motion shortly before this House calling back him against che world. (Laughter,
for the return of the exact number of and hear). From a review of all these
actions so quashed by this law; which, circumstances, I have come to the con-
I will add, was in my opinion the inost clusion that the church of England may,
unjust one ever passed in this world. without injury to its stability, be made
(Hear). I am a friend of the estao to maintain itself, and not be dependent
blished church; that I am so, indeed, I upon others. (Hear.) I have seen a
need not say myself, for very fortunately church of England in America so sup-
I have the certificate of the Bishop of ported : and I have known its pastors
Salisbury to that effect. (Laughter). In to receive from their several congrega.
1813 the worthy Bishop published a tions seldom less than 4001. a-year. Is
pamphlet, in which he said there was it likely that fthey would be worse paid
not a layman in England who was a in England, if similarly circumstanced ?
friend to the established church; but And I know from my own knowledge
in the second edition of that pam- that these clergymen are much more
phlet he begged my pardon, and respected than their brethren in this
added, in a note, that I was the only country. I will also add, that I think
lay friend of the establishment in the the church will never be pure, and con-
country. (Laughter, and hear). After sequently never beloved, till the whole
this, I am sure I need not profess my system of tithing and clerical extortion
regard for the established church, while is done away with for ever. (Hear,
I have the certificate of a bishop to do hear).
90 for me. (A laugh). This act, alluded Mr. METHven said that he believed
to by the hon. Baronet, it was which the inhabitants of Wales placed the
also repealed the 13. of Elizabeth, greatest confidence in his Majesty's
whereby the clergy of the established Ministers in looking for those changes
church were prevented from renting that were necessary in the established
farms in their several benefices, and church.
also from trafficking. (Laughter). It Mr. Estcourt complained of the
was passed, I believe, when the hon. manner in which the hon. Member had
Baronet was himself in the House. treated this subject. He had completely

Sir J. WROTTesley, we understood given the go-bye to the statements of to say across the table, did not at that the petition, and had introduced another time perceive the effects which have subject not at all before the House. since resulted from it.

| The hon. Member would have it beMr. Cobbetr: He did not perceive lieved, that although there were 10,000 the effects of it, he says; very likely. livings in England, there were only The bishops did not perceive the effects 4,000 resident clergymen. (Cries of of it either, or if they did they did not No, no). It was true, that in repeating choose to reveal their perception ; and that statement, the hon. Member had those effects have been that out of said 4,000 incumbenis. Now, he (Mr. 10,000 benefices in this kingdom, there Estcourt) was not prepared to make any are only 4,000 resident incumbents at specific statement to the House at this this moment. (Hear). Another evil effect moment in contradiction to that ; but of this act was the degradation it en- he appealed to every gentleman present, tailed on the clergy, by taking away whether his knowledge of the number the restraints laid on their pursuit of of parishes in the country without resi

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