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PARLIAMENT. [16.]

by fudden or violent operations.
teous was hanged at Edinburgh by a
mob, and Shawfield's houfe at Glay-
gow was deftroyed by a riot; yet care
was taken not to confound the inno-
cent with the guilty, and those cities ftill
preserve their former liberties and immu-
nities.

Since the beginning of this century there have been two open rebellions in favour of tyranny and arbitrary government; yet furely it would be an unfair ⚫ and illiberal reflection to fay, that Scot land, in general, was governed by mobs and rebellious councils.

ON Friday, Nov. 1o. the Lords were affembled, for examining Governor Pent and difcuffing a motion which the Duke of Richmond proposed to ground on fuch information as that gentleman fhould afford the House.

Previous to the calling of Mr Penn to the bar, the Duke of Richmond acknow ledged, that he had apprifed him of the questions which would be propounded to him; but difclaimed having entered into any fort of converfation with the Governor, left such conversation should be malevolently conftrued into a defigi of anticipating the answers Mr Pent might think proper to return.

His Grace having finished his prelimi nary remarks, Mr Penn was called to the bar, and interrogated nearly to the fol lowing purport.

Q. How long had he refided in Ame rica? A. Four years. Two of tho years in the capacity of Governor o Pennfylvania.

Q. In what eftimation was the con A. In the highest venera grefs held? tion imaginable by all ranks and order of men.

To conclude: Join then, as a minifter of peace, in praying for a happy and honourable accommodation of differences; that the horrors of a civil war may be a-. verted, which hardens the heart, and debauches all degrees of men; and which entails not only general diftrefs, but hatches evil morals in the minds of many; and may kind Providence difpofe both parties to fee their real in tereft, and to meet one another under the calm dictates of reason, instead of be-Q. Was he acquainted with any of th - ing guided by the blind impulses of paf- members of the continental congrefs? A fion; left, after exhaufting our ftrength He was perfonally acquainted with a in this unnatural conteft, one or both the members of that congress. parties fhould fall a prey to the common enemy. A WHIG. From a Father's Inftructions to his Children. : The Passions should be governed by Reason. Sophron and Alexis had frequently heard Euphronius mention the experiment of filling the waves with oil, made by his friend Dr Franklin. They were impatient to repeat it; and a brisk wind proving favourable to the trial, they haftened, one evening, to a fheet of water in the plea furegrounds of Eugenio, near Hart-Hill. The oil was scattered upon the pool, and spread itself instantly on all fides, calming the whole furface of the water, and reflecting the moft beautiful colours. Elated with fuccefs the youths returned to Euphronius, to enquire the caufe of fuch a wonderful appearance. He informed them, that the wind blowing apon water which is covered with a coat of oil, flides over the furface of it, and produ

ces no friction that can raife a wave. But this curious philofophical fact, faid he, fuggefts a most important moral reflection. When you fuffer yourself to be rufiled by Paffion, your minds refemble the puddle in a form. But Reafon, if you hearken to her voice, will then, like oil poured upon the water, calm the turbulence within you, and restore you to ferenity and peace.

Q. Was an implicit obedience paid t

the refolutions of that congrefs through

out all the provinces? A. He believe this to be the cafe.

Q. How many men had been raife throughout the province of Pennsylvania A. Twenty thousand effective men ha voluntarily enrolled themselves to ent into fervice if neceffity required.

Q. Of what rank, quality, and co dition, were those perfons? A. Men the most refpectable characters in t province.

Q. Were not a confiderable numb of them entirely deftitute of property A. It was prefumed, that, in fo large number as 20,000, there were fome n ceflitous; but the major part were flourishing fituations.

Q. Befides thofe 20,000 who volunt rily enrolled themselves to act as exige cies might require, what other forc had the provincials of Pennsylvania ra fed? A. Four thoufand minute-me whofe duty was pointed out by their d

fcriptio

fcription. They were to be ready for fervice at a minute's warning.

Q. Did the province of Pennsylvania grow corn fufficient for the fupply of its inhabitants? A. Much more than fufficient: there was a furplus for exportation, if required.

Q. Were they capable of making gunpowder in Pennsylvania? A. They perfectly well understood the art, and had effected it.

Q. Could faltpetre be made in the province? A. It could: mills, and other inftruments for effecting fuch an undertaking had been erected with success. Q. Could cannon be caft in Pennsylvania? A. The art of cafting cannon had been carried to great perfection: they were amply furnished with iron for the purpose.

Q. Could fmall arms be made to any degree of perfection? A. To as great a degree of perfection as could be imagined. The workmanship employed in finishing the fmall arms was univerfally admired for its excellence.

Q. Were the Americans expert in fhip-building? A. Equally fo with the Europeans.

Q.To what extent of tonnage did the largest of their fhipping amount? A. About three hundred tuns.

Q. Circumftanced as things at present were, did the witness think, that the language of the congrefs expreffed the fenfe of the people of America in general? A. As far as this queftion applied to Pennsylvania, he was fure this was the cafe; for the other provinces, he replied in the affirmative from information only.

Q. Did he fuppofe that the congrefs contained delegates fairly nominated by the choice of the people? A. He had no doubt but that the congrefs did contain delegates chofen under this defcription.

Q. By what mode were the delegates in congrefs appointed? A. By the votes of affemblies in fome places, by ballot in others.

Q. In what light had the petition which the witnefs had prefented to the King, been confidered by the Americans? A. The petition had been confidered as an olive-branch, and the witness had been complimented by his friends as the meffenger of peace.

Q. On the fuppofition that the prayer of this petition fhould be rejected, what VOL. XXXVIII.

did the witnefs imagine would be the confequence? A. That the Americans, who placed much reliance on the petition, would be driven to desperation by its non-fuccefs.

Q. Did the witnefs imagine, that fooner than yield to what were supposed to be the unjuft claims of Great Britain, the Americans would take the defperate refolution of calling in the aid of foreign affiftance? A. He was apprehenfive that this would be the cafe.

Q. What did the witnefs recollect of the ftamp-act? A. That it caused great uneafinefs throughout America.

Q: What did the witness recollect concerning the repeal of that act? A. The anniversary of that memorable day is kept throughout America, by every teftimony of public rejoicing; fuch as bonfires, illuminations, and other exhibitions of gladness.

Q. Would not the neglect with which the laft petition was treated, induce the Americans to refign all hopes of pacific negotiations? A. In the opinion of the witnefs it would.

Q. When the witness prefented the petition to the Secretary of State, was he asked any questions relative to the ftate of America? A. Not a fingle que

ftion.

Crofs Examination.

QAs the witnefs had acted as Governor, was he well acquainted with the charter of Pennfylvania? A. He was well acquainted with its contents.

Q. Did he not know, that there was a claufe which specifically subjected the colony to taxation by the British legislature? [xxxvi. 414.]. A. Yes..

Q. Were the people of Pennfylvania content with their charter? A. Perfectly content.

Q. Then did they not acquiefce in the right of the British parliament to enforce taxation? A. They acquiefced in a declaration of the right fo long as they experienced no inconvenience from the declaration.

Q. Did the witnefs apprehend, that the congrefs acquiefced in an act which maintained the authority of the British parliament in all cafes whatfoever? A. Except in taxation, he apprehended the Americans would have no objection to acknowledge the fovereignty of Great Britain.

Q. Had the witnefs ever heard of any perfons who had fuffered perfecutions, K

for

for declaring fentiments favourable to the fupremacy of the British parliament? A. He had heard of such oppreffions in other provinces, but never met with them during his refidence in Pennsylva

nia.

Q. In the opinion of the witness, were the Americans now free? A. They imagined themselves to be fo.

Q. In cafe a formidable force fhould be fent to America in fupport of government, did the witness imagine there were many who would openly profefs fubmiffion to the authority of parliament? A. The witnefs apprehended, that the few who would join on fuch an occafion would be too trivial a number to be of any confequence.

and that it is highly neceffary that proper fteps be immediately taken for attaining fo defirable an object.”

Lord Dartmouth replied, declared himself against the motion, expatiated largely on the lenity of government, remarked on the abfurdity of divulging plans of government, and faid, as the King had promifed in his fpeech to empower commiffioners on the fpot to negotiate a peace with the colonies, if it could be done with honour to this country, the motion was unneceffary. He added, that the last clause in the petition of the congrefs [xxxvii. 433.], which be read, fhewed, that the Americans wanted conceffious from Great Britain that could not be made; therefore there was no ground in the petition for conciliating the differences between the two countrics.

-

Mr Penn was then ordered to withdraw. The Duke of Richmond got up, and told the Houfe, that, as his Majefty's minifters had been repeatedly called upon Lord Sandwich declared, that three to lay before the Houfe a plan of their different mistakes had been made by the future operations in respect to America, Lords who had fpoken against adminiand had not thought fit to do it, though ftration in the present debate. The first a fortnight bad already elapfed, he muft was, That the river St Lawrence was gebe content with making the beft of what nerally frozen up in the end of October out-door reports he had been able to col- or beginning of November. This was, le&t. His Grace faid, That he under- if he could truft the information of as ftood commiffioners were to be fent from 'great a navigator as Sir Francis Drake, hence to treat with the Americans; but (Capt. Cook), a man who had lived four who they were, whether men of abilities, winters in the country, and who was the weight, and confequence, he knew not: firft navigator in Europe, a grofs error: That he had likewife heard, five batta- the river St Lawrence was not frozen up lions of Hanoverians were gone to Gib- till the end of December, and in fact the raltar and Mahon, the better to enable great danger of failing up it at this feagovernment to fend more British troops to fon of the year, arofe from the strong deftroy British subjects: That he had also · gales which were wont to blow therebeen told, that 70,000 men were to be fent abouts. The fecond was, That the to America, though by the refolutions of three regiments which were last embarkthe other Houfe, he found only 25,000 vo- ed were fent to Quebec. - The third, ted. Another piece of information he had, That 30,000 Ruffians were to be fent oacquired was, That 30,000 Ruffians were ver at the expence of 500,000l. and to be fent to the colonies. He then ac- 70,000 forces were to be employed. He quainted the Houfe, That in order to fa- begged the Noble Lords who made these tisfy his curiofity in refpect to the expence allegations, to inform him where they of transporting thofe people to America, got their fecret intelligence, as the mata very experienced officer in the navy, ter was entirely unknown to him. His whom he had confulted, had told him, Lordship then entered very fully into the that the mere victualling the tranfports, prefent fituation of the army and navy; and carrying them to America, would declaring, that the marines were at this coft 500,000l. without a fingle fhilling for moment recruiting without difficulty; their pay or cloathing, and other requi- as his Lordship proved by inftancing the fites. His Grace then entered upon the weekly returns; and as to the feamen, fubject at large, was fevere on admini- the recruiting of that body was of fo stration, and concluded with moving, very eafy a nature, that the officers in "That the matter of the American pe- particular, and the public in general, tition affords matter of conciliation of languifhed for the fervice, and he did "the unhappy difference fubfifting between not defpair of completing the number the mother-country and the colonies; voted, without having recourse to preff

ing. This his Lordship repeated; but begged the House to remember, that he did not pledge himself to perform it; be caufe, although he thought it might be done, he did not affert it pofitively, as he was fully convinced, that preffing was, in many cafes, a very neceffary meafure, and that a great naval force could never be raised without it.- Be. fore his Lordfhip concluded, he took occafion to ridicule the mode of negotiation proposed by the Lords who differed from him; and obferved, that though Gov. Penn was a worthy, honeft gentleman, he thought himself warranted to fay, his teftimony was clearly ex parte; and that therefore it might, without offence, be deemed a partial evidence. He called upon oppofition to fhew, in what books of negotiation their propofed plan was to be found, and advifed them to order their writers to publith fome new treatifes in fupport of it :but till he faw fuch treatifes, he declared he fhould view negotiations in the old point of view, and think it always right to negotiate with force in hand, and not to difarm ere preliminaries were confent. ed to. His Lordship gave an account of his conduct in negotiating the peace of Aix-la-Chapelle, where he did not confent to fend back the Ruffians, then on their march to join the allied army, 'till the French agreed to draw back an equal force from the field. That peace, his Lordship faid, was a peace which fell from the clouds,

That his information came from the Firft Lord of the Treasury, who had in the House of Commons made fuch a declaration. He rebuked Lord Sandwich for boafting of the peace of Aix-la-Chapelle, declaring, that the fending of peers as hoftages, on that occafion, was an infamy to this nation, and fixed a stigma on thofe who propofed and enforced the meafure, which nothing could wipe off. His Lordship drew a parallel between the number and fuccefs of our troops at that time and the prefent, mentioning particularly the terms of that peace, and afking what towns, what districts, could adminiftration now furrender as the terms of peace with the colonifts, when the fmall town of Bofton was the whole of Our American empire? His Lordship faid, the easy recruiting of the feamen called up in his mind ideas of pity and fenfibility; that it was too strong a proof of the decline of our trade, and the ruin of our commerce, to give him fenfations of pleasure. That the late riot in Liverpool [xxxvii. 523.] was afcribable to this, and this only; and that the douceur which prevented further difturbance was the providing for the rioters, by taking them into the royal navy: but that he thought the advertisement daily inferted in the public papers, for the lieutenants on halfpay to fend notice of their place of refidence, was rather contradictory to the Noble Lord's affertions on this head, efpecially as the advertisement declared, fuch as did not immediately comply with that requeft would be struck off the lift *. His Lordship concluded, that he was forry at the end of the debate to find, that the only information the last Noble fpeaker had given the Houfe, was to tell them, that their country muft, on the prefent melancholy difpute, look for peace in the clouds.

Lord Sandwich fhortly replied, and defended the measure of fending hoftages abroad previous to the peace of Aix

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Lord Shelburne replied, That, with regard to the alledged mistakes, being denied by adminiftration the proper intelligence, he, with the other Noble Lords who thought with him, were o bliged to acquire it where they could meet with it; that he had heard, from indifputable authority, that the river St. Laurence was annually frozen up at this feafon; and as to the regiments deftined to Quebec, it was the univerfal language of the people; and that although he could not reverence adminiftration, he did not wish them fo ill, as that they fhould be found in a fcrape at the expence of three regiments; but as it was notorious the regiments were embarked, he begged to know where they were deBined. If the flatement of 70,000 men was an error, the Lords in adminiftration fhould take fhame to themfelves, in obliging any Peer to go to the other Houfe of Parliament for intelligence;ther place.

[Admiralty office, 08. 28. 1775. Whereas feveral of the Lieutenants of his Majesty's Fleet, who are unemployed, have not fent to this office the places of their refidence; it is the direction of my Lords Commiffioners of the Admiralty, that all fuch lieutenants of his Majefty's Fleet as come within the above defcription, do forthwith tranfmit to this office the place of their refpective refidence; and that they do, for the future, continue to do the like whenever they remove to any oPH. STEPHENS."]

K 2 la Chapelle,

la-Chapelle, calling it his greateft merit. In reply to what Lord Shelburne had faid refpecting the Navy-office advertisements, his Lordship declared, there was no fuch threat held out in them as that of ftriking the lieutenants off the lift if they did not immediately regifter their places of refidence; and proved, that in every war, fince England was of any confequence in Europe, it had been cuftomary to publifh fuch advertisements; that they were from various caufes extremely neceffary; and that there was no difference in thofe lately published from fuch as had heretofore appeared on fimilar occafions.

The question being at length put, the House divided; and the numbers were, For the motion 27, proxies 6, in all 33. Against the motion 50, proxies 36; in all 86.-Majority against the motion 53. THE proceedings in the Houfe of Commons on the bill to prohibit all trade and intercourfe with the thirteen colonies [1], have been already inferted [xxxvii. 669.-672.].This bill was read a first time in the Houfe of Lords Dec. 13. and a fecond time Dec. 15.

At the fecond reading, the Duke of Manchefter oppofed the bill, on the grounds of cruelty, impolicy, and injuftice. It favoured fo much of cruelty, that it could be compared to nothing but an edict of a Tartar emperor, whom the hiftory of China held forth as such a monfter of oppreffion, that he prohibited all his fubjects from carrying on a beneficial branch of traffic, becaufe fome of them had, by their refractorinefs, attempted to prefcribe bounds to his tyrannic fway. The bill was impolitic, because it did the very thing which the Americans were charged with having attempted: It fevered the North-American colonies from G. Britain, perhaps for ever.—The bill was unjust in the extreme, because it involved the innocent and the guilty in one common punishment. The Noble Duke, therefore, at leaft was of opinion, that the commitment of the bill fhould be poftponed, inafmuch as it was better to procraftinate than accelerate a meafure which was fraught with confequences of a moft calamitous nature.

Lord Lyttelton defended the bill on principles of temporary expedience, of found policy, and of fubftantial juftice. There was nothing cruel in waging hoilities with a people whofe avowed acts

of rebellion had criminated them in the opinion of every ingeunous man. There was nothing inexpedient, because urgent neceffity called precifely for fuch a measure. Nor was their aught of injuftice in the act. The counfels of government were not like thofe of the Spanish Philip, who projected an arbitrary domination over the United Provinces. Both the measures of government, and the counfels of thofe minifters who had the guidance of fuch measures, were directed to promote the welfare of the empire. The conftitutional rights of a part, as far as was confiftent with the legal fovereignty of the whole, were the effentials, on the prefervation of which, ministry, for fome years past, had been principally intent.

The Duke of Richmond condemned the bill, on a fuppofition, that the American war had originated from tyrannic oppreffion on the part of England. His Grace contended, That the acts of parliament which had been paffed againft America, were founded on injuftice; that the Americans had been grievously oppreffed; and, driven to defperation, they had taken up arms in defence of the common rights of human nature.

Lord Lyttelton animadverted on fuch language, as highly deferving the cen fure of the Houfe. Cicero had attributed the downfall of liberty in Rome, to the extreme licentiousness of debate permitted for fome time in the public affemblies. The Noble Duke had a right to pronounce, with freedom, on any bills pending before the Houfe; but acts which had paffed the folemn feal of legiflative authority, these should be facred

from traduction.

Lord Denbigh cautioned the Noble Duke to be careful of his language in future, for that fuch expreffions as bad fallen from his lips were not to be juftified, as being unparliamentary in the ex

treme.

The Duke of Richmond in reply obferved, that the prefent bill was to be juftified or reprobated only as it flood connected with former acts of parliament; fuppofing an unjust war to be levied, and that to carry it on a vote for fupplies fhould be propofed, would it not be natural, in giving a negative to raifing the fupplies, to affign as a reafon the extreme injuftice of the war? Thus in the American difpute, if G. Britain,

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