alternative you place before the Government by this proposal? If you defeat the Government, which you will not do, you on that side of the House, many of whom during the war I have heard making attacks on the Kaffirs and speaking about their position in the social scale in language which I will not now recapitulate-you will be placing in the hands of Kaffirs the whole monopoly of labour in South Africa, and by doing so you will make the Kaffirs the dictators of the pace at which civilisation should proceed in that country. Do not let it be supposed that by introducing other labour you are handicapping the whites. You are enabling the whites to find subsistence. It is not I who say this. The hon. Member for Camberwell last night said that shiploads of whites were coming away from South Africa, and the other day, when 3,000 or 4,000 Kaffirs left their work on the railways, 600 or 700 whites superintending them had immediately to be dismissed. Nobody has spoken more strongly upon that than the right hon. Member for Aberdeen. He says
labourers than at present. What is the Chinese labour, and in Africa the proposal is to have temporary labour under definite restrictions. We have heard very tall talk with regard to this labour. The Member for Camberwell said that the British soldier would tear off his medals sooner than see the Chinaman performing his religious observances in his own compound; and we have been told that we are establishing a moral pest spot, and a moral cancer. Some years ago a statesman said that the Australian Colonies taxed the Chinaman and that that was protection pure and simple. They taxed him not because it was the desire of an enlightened race not to associate with a nation of a less degree of enlightenment-not on account of the Chinaman's vices, but because of his virtues, because he did more work for the money, because he consumed less liquor. That is the statement of Mr. Gladstone. It is ten years since the voice of Mr. Gladstone was heard in this House, but I think the echo of these sentiments will be more powerful tonight than some of the utterances to which we have listened. We are asked to delay this Ordinance. My right hon. friend has given some most specific pledges as to the regulations, and those pledges will be specifically observed. What is the Ordinance? The Ordinance is an Ordinance of the Transvaal Legislative Council which the Council has made and the Council can revok by it; and if hon. Australia to the introduction of Chinese Members opposite upset the Government labour and the objection in South Africa. they can themselves reconsider the There is no parallel between the two cases subject. When self-government is given except this that both countries are to the Transvaal, which hon. Gentleman British colonies. In Australia it is a opposite regard as an early expedient, question of the coolie competing against the colony will itself be able, at any the white man; in Africa it is a question moment it pleases, to deal with this Ordinof the yellow man competing against the ance. It is hedged about with every reblack man. In Australia the experience striction which philanthropy can suggest, has been of unrestricted permanent and I think this House would exercise an
“All hard labour, all unskilled labour, is, and must be, done by the blacks. The coloured man is indispensable to the white man. He is a necessary part of the economic machinery of the country, whether for mining or for manufacture, for tillage or for ranching.”
An entirely false economic parallel has been drawn between the objection in
unwise discretion if it placed any difficulty in the way of the Government to-night. Have we not too often in the past stepped in here to change that which those on the spot advised us to do in connection with our colonies. This is a time when the House should disregard sentimental forebodings which have no foundation, which are in fact appeals to prejudice that may do for the platform, but are too thin for the House of Commons. The House should now express its determination to place the labour question in the Transvaal on such a footing as may tend to the civilising of that colony, and so avoid the difficulties which have been clearly pointed out, and the effects of which may be clearly foreseen.
*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. AKERS
Name," said: I want to be respectful to the House, but this is a matter on which I feel very strongly. I want to ask you, Sir, whether the Government intend by moving the closure to make it impossible for me to speak.
*MR. SPEAKER: The duty is thrown
DOUGLAS, Kent, St. Augustine's) moved on the Chair of accepting or rejecting the
that the Question be now put.
MR. CROOKS, addressing the Speaker amid loud cries of "Order," said he desired to be heard.
Motion for the closure after it has been proposed. I am sure the hon. Member does not wish to show any disrespect to the Chair. The closure has been moved.
MR. CROOKS rose again, but was, as
*MR. SPEAKER: The Question is that before, received with loud cries of
MR. CROOKS again attempted to speak, beginning with the words "Surely, Mr. Speaker," but the remainder of the sentence was lost in cries of "Order." Speaking in a loud voice, which was
"Order," and some cries of "Go on " from his his supporters. He, however, quickly resumed his seat.
Question put, "That the Question be now put."
The House divided:-Ayes, 330; Noes,
audible above the clamour, the hon. 172. (Division List No. 3.)
Bailey, James (Walworth) Bain, Colonel James Robert Baird, John George Alexander Balcarres, Lord Baldwin, Alfred Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Banbury, Sir Frederick George Bartley, Sir George C. T. Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Beach, Rt.Hn.Sir Mich. Hicks Beckett, Ernest William Bignold, Arthur Bigwood, James Bill, Charles
Blyndell, Colonel Henry Boland, John
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Boulnois, Edmund Bousfield, William Robert Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh. Brymer, William Ernest Bull, William James Burdett-Coutts, W. Burke, E. Haviland- Butcher, John George Campbell, Rt.Hn. J.A(Glasgow Campbell, J.H.M(Dublin Univ. Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Carlile, William Walter Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Cautley, Henry Strother Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbyshire Cecil Evelyn (Aston Manor) Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Chamberlain, RtHn. J.A(Worc Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Chapman, Edward Charrington, Spencer Clancy, John Joseph
Coates, Edward Feetham
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon Donelan, Captain A. Doogan, P. C.
Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Doxford, Sir William Theodore Duffy, William J. Duke, Henry Edward Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Hart Esmonde, Sir Thomas Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Faber, George Denison (York) Fardell, Sir T. George Farrell, James Patrick Field, William Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Firbank, Sir Joseph Thomas Fison, Frederick William FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon Flannery, Sir Fortescue Flavin, Michael Joseph Flower, Sir Ernest Flynn, James Christopher Forster, Henry William Foster, P. H. (Warwick, S.W. Fyler, John Arthur Galloway, William Johnson Gardner, Ernest Garfit, William Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Gilhooly, James
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Gordon, Hn. J.E. (Elgin&Nairn) Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Gordon, Maj. E. (T'r Hamlets Gore, Hn.G. R. C. Orms.-(Salop Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Goulding, Edward Alfred Graham, Henty Robert Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Greene, SirE.W(B'rySEdm'nds
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury
Coddington, Sir William Cogan, Denis J.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Compton, Lord Alwyne Condon, Thomas Joseph Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Cripps, Charles Alfred Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Cubitt, Hon. Henry Cust, Henry John C. Dalkeith, Earl of Dalrymple, Sir Charles Davenport, William Bromley- Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Delany, William
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Dewar, Sir T.R(Tower Hamlets Dickson, Charles Scott Digby, John K. D. Wingfield-
Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Grenfell, William Henry Gretton, John Greville, Hon. Ronald Hain, Edward
Hall, Edward Marshall Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Hambro, Charles Eric Hamilton, RtHnLord G(Midd'x Hamilton, Marq.of (L'nd'nderry Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Hare, Thomas Leigh Haslam, Sir Alfred S. Haslett, Sir James Horner Hayden, John Patrick Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley) Heath, James (Staffords., N.W. Heaton, John Heniker Helder, Augustus Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W.) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Hickman, Sir Alfred Hoare, Sir Samuel Hobhouse, RtHn H. (Somers't, E Hope, J.F(Sheffield, Brightside
Houston, Robert Paterson Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Hudson, George Bickersteth Hunt, Rowland Hutton, John (Yorks., N.R.) Jameson, Major J. Eustance Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred. Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Joyce, Michael
Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W.(Salop. Kerr, John
Keswick, William Kimber, Henry Knowles, Sir Lees Laurie, Lieut.-General Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Lawrence, Sir J. (Monmouth) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Lawson, John G. (Yorks., N.R.) Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Llewellyn, Evan Henry Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Bristol, S.) Lonsdale, John Brownlee Lowe, Francis William Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'uth Lundon, W.
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Macdona, John Cumming MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Maconochie, A. W. MacVeagh, Jeremiah M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) M'Calmont, Colonel James M'Hugh, Patrick, A. M'Kean, John
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Malcolm, Ian
Manners, Lord Cecil Martin, Richard Biddulph Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Maxwell, RtHnSir H.E(Wigt❜n Maxwell, W.J.H(Dumfriessh- Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Middlemore, Jn. Throgmorton Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G Mitchell, William (Burnley) Molesworth, Sir Lewis Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow Morrell, George Herbert Morrison, James Archibald Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Mount, William Arthur Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Muntz, Sir Philip A. Murphy, John Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) Hurray, Charles J. (Coventry) Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Myers, William Henry
Nicholson, William Graham Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) O'Dowd, John
O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.) O'Malley, William O'Mara, James
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) Parker, Sir Gilbert
Peel, Hn. Wm. Rob. Wellesley Percy, Earl Pierpoint, Robert
Pilkington, Colonel Richard Platt-Higgins, Frederick Plummer, Walter R. Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Power, Patrick Joseph Pretyman, Ernest George Purvis, Robert Pym, C. Guy Randles, John S. Rankin, Sir James Ratcliff, R. F. Reddy, M.
Redmond, John E. (Waterford Redmond, William (Clare) Reid, James (Greenock) Remnant, James Farquharson
Ridley, Hn. M.W.(Stalybridge) | Thornton, Percy M. Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Roche, John
Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter Royds, Clement Molyneux Rutherford, John (Lancashire) Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Sandys, Lt. Col. Thos. Myles Saunderson, RtHn. Col. Edw. J Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) Seton-Karr, Sir Henry
Sharpe, William Edward T. Sinclair, Louis (Romford) Skewes-Cox, Thomas Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) Smith, H.C.(North'mb.Tynesid Smith, James Parker (Lanarks. Smith, Hon, W. F. D. (Strand) Spear, John Ward
Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs. Stewart, Sir Mark J. M‘Taggart Stock, James Henry Stone, Sir Benjamin Stroyan, John
Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley Sullivan, Donal
Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) Talbot, Rt. Hn.J.G(Oxf'd Univ. Thorburn, Sir Walter
Tollemache, Henry James Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. Tuff, Charles
Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward Vincent, Col.Sir C.E.H(Sheff'd Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) Walker, Col. William Hall Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H Wanklyn, James Leslie Warde, Colonel C. E. Webb, Colonel William George Welby, Lt. Col. A.C.E(Taunton Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts. Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd Whitmore, Charles Algernon Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord Willox, Sir John Archibald Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R. Wilson, John (Glasgow) Wilson-Todd, Sir W.H.(Yorks.) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R.(Bath) Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- Wrightson, Sir Thomas Wylie, Alexander Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong Young, Samuel
TELLERS FOR THE AYES-Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)
Atherley-Jones, L.
Austin, Sir John
Barlow, John Emmott Barran, Rowland Hirst
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Beaumont, Wentworth, C. B. Bell, Richard
Black, Alexander William Brand, Hon. Arthur G. Broadhurst, Henry Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Burns, John
Burt, Thomas Buxton, Sydney Charles Caldwell, James Cameron, Robert Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Causton, Richard Knight Cawley, Frederick Channing, Francis Allston Churchill, Winston Spencer Cremer, William Randal Crombie, John William Crooks, William
Duncan, J. Hastings Edwards, Frank Elibank, Master of Ellice, Capt E.C(S. Andrw's Bghs Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Emmott, Alfred
Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Farquharson, Dr. Robert Fenwick, Charles
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. Fuller, J. M. F.
Goddard, Daniel Ford Grant, Corrie
Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E. (Berwick) Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Hammond, John
Harcourt, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydv. Harmsworth, R. Leicester Harwood, George
Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. Helme, Norval Watson Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. Holland, Sir William Henry Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Hutchinson, D. Charles Fredk. Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Johnson, John (Gateshead) Jacoby, James Alfred Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) Jones, William(Carnarvonshire Jordan, Jeremiah
Kearley, Hudson, E. Kilbride, Denis Kitson, Sir James Labouchere, Henry Lambert, George Langley, Batty
Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W Llayland-Barratt, Francis Leese, Sir Jos. F. (Accrington Leigh, Sir Joseph Leng, Sir John Levy, Maurice
Lewis, John Herbert Lloyd-George, David Lough, Thomas
MacDonnell, Dr, Mark A. Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. M'Crae, George M'Kenna, Reginald
M'Laren, Sir Charles Benjamin, Mansfield, Horace Rendall Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N. Mooney, John J.
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Morley, Rt.Hn. John (Montrose Moulton, John Fletcher Newnes, Sir George Nolan, Co. John P. (Galway, N| Norman, Henry
Norton, Capt. Cecil William Nussey, Thomas Willans Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham) Partington, Oswald Paulton, James Mellor Pirie, Duncan V. Priestley, Arthur Rea, Russell
Reckitt, Harold James Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries Rickett, J. Compton Rigg, Richard
Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) Robson, William Snowdon
Roe, Sir Thomas Rose, Charles Day Runciman, Walter Russell, T. W.
Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) Schwann, Charles E. Seely, Maj. J.E.B(Isleof Wight Shackleton, David James Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.) Shipman, Dr. John G. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) Slack, John Bamford Sloan, Thomas Henry Smith, Samuel (Flint) Soames, Arthur Wellesley Soares, Ernest J. Spencer, Rt. Hn. C.R(Northants Stevenson, Francis S. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. Strachey, Sir Edward Tennant, Harold John Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.) Thomas, D. Alfred (Merthyr) Thomson, F. W. (Kork, W. R.) Tillet, Louis John
Tomkinson, James Toulmin, George Trekelyan, Charles Philips Ure, Alexander Wallace, Robert Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) Wason, Jn. Cathcart (Orkney) Weir, James Galloway White, George (Norfolk) White, Luke (York, E. R.) Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) Wilson, Fred. W. (Norfolk,Mid. Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) Wilson, John (Falkirk) Wood, James Woodhouse,Sir J.T(Huddersf'd Yoxall, James Henry
TELLERS FOR THE NOES-Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. William M'Arthur.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen)
Barlow, John Emmott
Barran, Rowland Hirst
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Bell, Richard
Black, Alexander William Boland, John
Broadhurst, Henry Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Burke, E. Haviland Burns, John
Burt, Thomas
Buxton, Sydney Charles Caldwell, James
Cameron, Robert
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Causton, Richard Knight Cawley, Frederick
Channing, Francis Allston Churchill, Winston Spencer Clancy, John Joseph Cogan, Denis J.
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan Delany, William Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Donelan, Captain A. Doogan, P. C.
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Duffy, William J. Duncan, J. Hastings Edwards, Frank Elibank, Master of
Ellice, Capt E.C(SAndrw's Bghs Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Emmott, Alfred Esmonde, Sir Thomas Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Farquharson, Dr. Robert Farrell, James Patrick Fenwick, Charles
Fuller, J. M. F. Gilhooly, James
Goddard, Daniel Ford Grant, Corrie
Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E. (Berwick) Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Hain, Edward Hammond, John
Harcourt, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hardie, J. Keir (M'rth'r T'dvil) Harmsworth, R. Leicester Harwood, George Hayden, John Patrick Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. Helme, Norval Watson Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) Holland, Sir William Henry Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Jacoby, James Aitred Johnson, John (Gateshead) Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Jordan, Jeremiah
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) Joyce, Michael
Ffrench, Peter Field, William
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Flavin, Michael Joseph Flynn, James Christopher Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Kitson, Sir James
Labouchere, Henry Lambert, George Langley, Batty
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