the regulations to be framed under the probably be objected to by the Indian Transvaal Imported Labour Ordinance Government, is based upon any correwill prohibit the supply of opium to those spondence; and, if so, whether he will labourers.

lay this correspondence upon the Table

of the House. MR. LYTTELTON: The Law to wbich the hon. Member refers prohibits the

MR. LYTTELTON: The statement in supply of intoxicants to coloured persons, the telegram in question was based, not except as regards Kaffir beer for the use upon any correspondence, but upon the of natives employed at the mines, and I fact that communications have been proam communicating with Lord Milner as to ceeding between the Transvaal Governthe corresponding arrangements to be ment, the Colonial Office, the Indian Office. made in the case of Chinese. As regards and the Indian Government with a view the second part of the hon. Member's of arriving at an agreement with regard Question, I am advised that Chinese to the status of the Indian traders, Jabourers are not addicted to the excessive business in the Transvaal now and before

licensed and unlicensed, carrying on use of opium, but the necessity for providing against such abuse will not be the war; and that pending the settlement providing against such abuse will not be of this matter the Indian Government is lost sight of.

disposed to object to the introduction of Labour Ordinances-Hours of Labour

Indian coolies into the Transvaal. As and Pay.

those negotiations are still proceeding I MR. SYDNEY BUXTON (Tower do not propose to lay Papers at present. Hamlets, Poplar): I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies

Sunday Trains on Irish Railways. whether there is any labour Ordinance

MR. O'SHAUGHNESSY (Limerick, of any importance now in force in any w.): I beg to ask the President of the Crown colony in which the maximum Board of Trade whether he is aware that number of hours of labour per day for the Great Southern and Western Railway the indentured labourer and the minimum Company have for some time discontinued rate of wages to be paid bim are not the Sunday trains between Limerick and provided for in the Ordinance itself. Tralee, which were continually run by the

Waterford and Limerick Railway Com. MR. LYTTELTON : I have not been pany; whether he has received a resoluable to assure myself within the short

tion notice given of the facts. It is perhaps Abbeyfeale, in the county of Limerick,

of the traders and others in sufficient to state that the contract into which the labourer will enter will contain complaining of such action : and whether, which the labourer will enter will contain seeing that by the amalgamation of the the hours of labour and the rate of wages latter company with the former the agreed upon. The contract is fully safeguarded in the interests of the Chinese, public were guaranteed equal facilities to not merely by his own intelligence but those heretofore enjoyed them by a Protector to be appointed in China will, in view of the loss and inconvenience by the Chinese Government.

o the public caused by the discontinuance

of these trains, take steps to have them MR. WHITLEY (Halifax): Can the continued. right hon. Gentleman say

what wages have been agreed upon


received from the hon. Member a copy of MR. LYTTELTON : No, Sir.

the resolution to which he refers. I am

inviting the observations of the railway British Indians and the Transvaal Labour company in the matter and will comOrdinance.

municate with the hon. Member on MAJOR SEELY: I beg to ask the receiving the company's reply. Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his statement in his telegram Cork Post Office-Overtime for American to Lord Milner of 16th January, that

Mails. the provisions of the draft Ordinance MR. J. F. X. O'BRIEN (Cork): I beg for the importation of indentured labour, to ask the Postmaster-General 'whether, if applied to British Indians, would in view of the fact that the whole dual

[ocr errors]

staff of the Cork Post Office, with four or MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I hope this five exceptions, has suffered to an extent Bill will be introduced before Easter, varying from ld. to 4d. per hour by the but the House knows that our pressing abolition of the special rate for overtime necessity at the present moment is for the disposal of the American mail Supply, and I can give no absolute pledge matter, he will increase the minimum rate on the subject. to ls. per hour, in view of the importance attached to the acceleration of those

Parliament and the Press. mails; and whether steps wiil be taken, MR. MALCOLM (Suffolk, Stowwithout delay, to compensate those officers market): I beg to ask the First Lord of who have suffered by the late reduction. the Treasury whether he will consider

the advisability of arranging to supply THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Lord Blue-books and other State Papers, issued STANLEY, Lancashire, Westhoughton): I by Command or by public departments, have called for a further report on the simultaneously to Parliament and to the matter to which the hon. Member refers, Press. and I will give him a reply as soon as possible.


(Stirling Burghs): Before the right hon. CAPTAIN DONELAN (Cork Co., E.): Gentleman answers, may I point out, with Can the noble Lord say why this special regard to the mysterious document to rat of for

which I have already made reference on pay overtime has been abolished ?

two successive days, that we are still without that document, although it

appeared in the newspapers on Monday LORD STANLEY: It arises out of a

morning? general readjustment based on the recommendations, I believe, of the Tweedmouth MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I think the fact Committee. I am making further inquiries to which the right hon. Gentleman calls my into the matter.

attention, and of which I was not aware,

is most regrettable. I do not know what Marine Insurance Bill.

is the cause of it. The House knows MR. CHARLES MCARTHUR (Liverpool, that when the Press gets hold of a docuExchange): I beg to ask the First Lord ment it has very exceptional facilities of the Treasury if he will state whether for rapidly putting it before the public, the Marine Insurance Bill will be re-intro- and no machinery we can construct, will, duced at an early date.

I think, be able to compete with them.

But I think every effort ought to be THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST made in order that documents may be in LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. the hands of Members or, at the very BALFOUR, Manchester, E.): I hope the least, in the Vote Office before they are Bill to which my hon. friend refers, and available for the Press for publication. in which I know he takes the greatest interest, will be introduced at an early SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: date.

The right hon. Gentleman hardly goes

back far enough. He says the Press MR. CHARLES MCARTHUR: Will it ‘got hold” of this document. be first brought in in this House.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: No, no ! MR. A. J. BALFOUR: Yes, I believe

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN : that is the arrangement.

Someone must have given the document

to the Press. The point at which to stop Alien Immigration Bill.

these proceedings is surely the point Me. TREVELYAN Yorkshire, W.R., where the communication is made by the Elland): I beg to ask the First Lord of Government. the Treasury whether it is probable that the Alien Immigration Bill will be MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I was not introduced before Easter.

talking about that particular document. I did, it is true, refer to that, but in my I hope, be introduced at a very early general observations I was referring to a date. rule which I think, as far as possible, ought to be applied to all documents. MR. JOHN REDMOND: May we As regards that particular document, I hope they may be introduced nex think it is a very serious thing that it week ? should not have been in the hands of Members. I was not in London last

MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I hope so. week. I was communicated with as to whether there was any objection to

The Parliamentary Session. publication. I said “No."

MR. GALLOWAY (Manchester, S.W.): MR. BUCHANAN : Would the I beg to ask the First Lord of the difficulty not be got over by arranging Treasury whether his attention has been that the Press shall only obtain the called to the proposed alteration in the documents when printed for the use of Parliamentary Session; and if he will Members ?

give facilities for a discussion upon the


(Lynn Regis): Inasmuch as the copy furnished to the Press is always printed, would 2 MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I do not think

anything but good would ensue upon a it take more than a few more hours to strike off the 700 copies required for discussion of this question by the House, Members ?

and I hope my hon. friend will be

successful in the ballot. There are two MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I do not think points to be considered in connection the matter is quite so simple as my hon. with this matter-one is the great diffifriend supposes, but I am quite willing to culty of rearranging the session in view do my best.

| of the legal end of the financial year and

the necessity of getting through the MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, N.): Was this greater part of Supply after the financial mysterious document submitted to the year. The second difficulty which has members of the Cabinet before being always influenced me in throwing cold given to the Press ?

water on the proposal is that, while I am

quite sure it would be easy to make the *MR SPEAKER: That does not arise session begin earlier, I am not quite sure out of the Question.

it would be easy to make it end earlier. MR. FLYNN (Cork County, N.): Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is

NEW WRIT. quite customary for the Press to get advance copies of public documents long

New Writ for the couniy of Dorset before they in the hands of (Eastern Division), in the room of the Members ?

Hon. Humphry Napier Sturt, now Baron

Alington, called up to the House of Peers. * MR. SPEAKER: Order, order. This —(Sir A. Acland-Hood.) is now becoming a debate.


Irish Bills.


(CHAIRMEN'S PANEL). beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury Sir James FERGUSSON reported from whether he will immediately introduce the Chairmen's Panel; That they had the promised measure dealing with appointed Lord Edmund Fitzmaurice to labourers in Ireland, so as to afford act as Chairman of the Standing Comample time for the consideration of its mittee for the consideration of Bills provisions by those specially interested relating to Law, and Courts of Justice, in the matter.

and Legal Procedure; and Sir Thomas

Esmonde to act as Chairman of the MR. A. J. BALFOUR: Both the Bills Standing Committee for the considerato which the hon. Gentleman refers will, tion of Bills relating to Trade (including

Agriculture and Fishing), Shipping, and Vote A and Vote 1, and it is by arrangeManufactures.

ment only that such discussions are allowed

on other Votes. I, therefore, think that Sir JAMES FERGUSSON further reported in this case a gereral discussion will be from the Chairmen's Panel; That they permissible. had agreed to the following Resolution : “That any member of the Chairmen's MR. WILLIAM REDMOND (Clare, E.) Panel be and he is hereby empowered to said that in continuation of the protest ask any other member of the Chairmen's be made on Vote A he intended to move Panel to take his place in case of a reduction of the present Vote, which necessity.'

was the first in which they were con

fronted with a large increase of money Reports to lie upon the Table.

for naval expenditure. He thought he

was justified from the point of view of PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE.

the Irish taxpayers in making a practical Second Report brought up, and read; protest by moving a reduction. to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.

MR. BUCHANAN (Perthshire, E.): On

a point of order I wish to move an NEW BILL.

Amendment, and I should like to know

reduction moved by the hon.

Gentleman for East Clare will have the OUTDOOR RELIEF (FRIENDLY

effect of excluding me from an opporSOCIETIES) (No. 2) BILL.

tunity of drawing attention to an “To amend The Outdoor Relief

earlier item in the Vote? (Friendly Societies) Act, 1894," presented by Mr. Gretton ; supported by Mr. *THE CHAIRMAN: If a reduction is Butcher, Mr. Cameron, Sir Ernest

moved of the whole sum it will not Flower, Sir Carne Rasch, Mr. Shackleton, be possible then to move a reduction of and Mr. Soames; to be read a second

an item. time upon Wednesday next, and to be printed. [Bill 106.)

MR. WHITLEY (Halifax): Would it be possible for the Government

to put the closure on the Motion, and SUPPLY.

thus deprive hon. Members of an opporConsidered in Committee:

tunity of discussing details of the Vote?

if a

[ocr errors]
[ocr errors]

(In the Committee.)

*THE CHAIRMAN : Certainly.

[Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, MR. WILLIAM REDMOND said he Penrith) in the Chair.]

had no desire to prevent hon. Gentlemen

above the Gangway indulging in any critiNAVY ESTIMATES, 1904-5, cisms they might deem necessary in regard Motion made, and Question proposed, to the policy of the Government, and, “That a sum, not exceeding £6,691,000, therefore, he would content himself with be granted to His Majesty, to defray the moving a reduction of Item A by the sum Expenses of Wages, etc., to Officers, of £281,692. He thought it was most Seamen and Boys, Coast Guard, and unjust and unfair from the point of view Royal Marines, which will come in of the Irish taxpayer that, without any course of payment during the year reference whatever to the capacity of ending on the 31st day of March, 1905.” Ireland to meet these great increases of

expenditure, these additions to the MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON (Dun- Estimates should be put down. He did dee) inquired if a general discussion not complain in the slightest degree of would be allowed on the Vote.

the Secretary to the Treasury or of the

officials in charge of the Admiralty *THE CHAIRMAN: I think the practice making what arrangements they conhas been to allow a general discussion on sidered to be necessary for the efficiency of the Fleet as far as England was part of successive Governments which concerned, and he held that an Irish had entailed the expenditure of enormous Member had very little right in that sums by Ireland owing to the arrangeHouse to object to any experditure- ments under the Union from which Ireland naval or otherwise- of the money of the had derived no benefit whatever. He British taxpayer. The Government was would not refer, even briefly, to the South entitled to do exactly as it liked with its African War which had just been conown taxation. I hey could increase the cluded. It was, however, a notorious Navy Estimates and the Army Estimates fact that Ireland had no interest in that year by year if they chose, but the Irish war, that the Irish people were passiontaxpayers objected-and it was an ately opposed to it, and whether they objection against which no reasonable were right or wrong in the estimation o argument could be advanced—that it Englishmen, the fact remained that the was unfair to insist on their paying voices and the votes of Ireland in that whether their country was prosperous or House were raised in opposition to it, not. They ought not to be called upon, and that they disclaimed all participation whether they liked or not, to pay their in it. Yet the Irish people had been share of any increased expenditure which called upon to pay a very large and might be deemed necessary by the British unfair proportion of the 250,000,000 or Government. That raised at once the so of money which the war had cost the whole question of Ireland's position taxpayers of these countries.' towards Great Britain under the Act of Union, which abolished the Irish Par- These Naval Estimates were simply a liament. They were told at the time of continuation of the old policy towards the Union that the amalgamation of the Ireland of making Irish people Irish and British Legislatures would have share an increased expenditure whether most beneficial results so far as Ireland they desired to do so or not, and his was concerned; they were told that object in rising that day was to askunder the Union they would enjoy though he supposed it would be perfectly benefits and advantages which they could futile for him to do so—that in the never obtain under an Irish Parliament. future some arrangement might be made, But those who opposed the Union very while the present system of Irish Governwisely predicted that that result very ment lasted, whereby increased expendilikely would not be achieved, but that, ture which was initiated by England on the contrary, the result of the union alone should be borne by England alone, of the Irish and British Parliaments and that the Irish taxpayers should be would be that Ireland, from a financial relieved from this enormous tax upon point of view, would suffer considerably. their slender resources.

He knew perHe ventured to assert most respectfully fectly well that a great many Members that no Member on either side of the would come at once to the conclusion House could deny that the effect of the that in ohjecting to the increase of those Union down to the present day had been Estimates he, and those of his colleagues that the Irish taxpayer had been called who joined him in the objection, were upon to spend enormous sums for pur simply actuated by the motive of delay. poses which would never have arisen at ing the transaction of business. There all had Ireland remained a self-governing were, he believed, some Members who country with a Parliament of her own- went so far as to say that their object had been called upon to spend enormous was simply to waste the time of Parliasums of money for purposes which had ment. Well, they had to put up with been brought about owing to the action those misrepresentations, and he said of England and Scotland, and through no there, as sincerely and truly as ever any fault of the Irish people themselves. He man had made a declaration in that knew he was bound to confine himself to increase because he believed it was mon

House, that he was objecting to that the Navy Estimates on that particular strously unjust and unfair to ask Irish occasion; otherwise, he thought he would taxpayers for an increase of even one have been able to trace, year by year, shilling of money under the Vote. during the last century, action on the would ask the Secretary to the Treasury

Mr. William Redmond.

« 前へ次へ »