answer the our making them readjust their arrange- foreign, and it is probably advantageous ments? From all I know, I should to no one, unless it be to the dishonest that most distinctly trader, who is able to profit by the conbenefits will be so great to fusion which prevails. international trade, to our home trade, and to education, that this change is desirable, and will in the end be of immense benefit to the country. The noble Lord referred to the Conference of Colonial Premiers and stated that at that Con I will not attempt to follow the two noble Lords into the instances which they gave us of the complication and inconvenience of our various kinds of weights and measures. We have all of us on occasions suf ference nothing was said about compul- fered from the state of things which sion. LORD WOLVERTON: I stated that they did not make a great mark of compulsion; they did not emphasise it. *EARL SPENCER: I venture to say that without compulsion we shall remain exactly in the position in which we are now. I believe that compulsion, in this matter, is absolutely essential, and, wherever the change has been compulsorily adopted, it has been attended with great advantages. There will be other opportunities of discussing this matter, and I shall not delay the House further upon it to-night. I cannot help expressing the hope, however, that His Majesty's Government will not think it necessary to refer the Bill to a Select Committee. There is ample material for decision, and I think the Government may have sufficient confidence in the noble Lord, and in his colleagues at the Board of Trade, that they can frame what Amendments are necessary without the necessity of delaying the Bill by sending it upstairs to a Select Committee. *THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE): My Lords, we on these Benches desire to associate ourselves with what the noble Earl has said as to the thanks which are due by this House to the two noble Lords who have introduced this Bill, and by their speeches have made interesting a most important, but, at the same time, dry and intricate, subject. I feel sure they will not be dissatisfied with the reception which their proposals have received. We are all agreed that the existing system-if, indeed, it is worthy of the name of a system-is one to which overwhelming objections can be urged. It is distracting to learners and obstructive to trade, home and prevails. But I am tempted to cap the story which was told by the noble and erudite Lord on the Back Benches. He mentioned how he was very nearly disabled by a serious accident because a rifle upon which he was experimenting had been wrongly charged owing to the resemblance between two different dimensions of weight taken from different tables. My anecdote is drawn from a more prosaic source. Not long ago a friend of mine was travelling on the Continent, and being indisposed sent a prescription given him by his English doctor to be made up by a local druggist. In due time a box of pills was delivered to him. My friend said they were of the size of small marbles, and he was so intimidated by their appearance that he decided not to adopt the remedy. Very soon the chemist appeared in a state of intense emotion, and stated that his assistant, who had made up the pills, did not know the difference between a grain and a gramme, and thought that the latter was the proper weight to be used, with the result that each of those torpedoes contained about 30 grains of calomel, which I am told is considerably more than a grown man's dose. The noble Lord opposite has taken us to task for proposing to send this Bill to a Select Committee. I do not think his It is true objection is well-founded. that in 1895 a Select Committee of the House of Commons dealt, not with a Bill, but with the subject generally. Their Report is a very short one, and I hope I shall not be thought disrespectful if I say that it seems to me a somewhat perfunctory treatment of a difficult subject. My noble friend who spoke for the Government has moreover made it clear that the Bill on the Table contains a number of provisions which require very careful and minute consideration, and I submit that a Select | to announce the policy which they inCommittee is the proper body for that tend to adopt in this matter." But this task. I certainly prefer that course to the alternative of the noble Earl opposite, who suggested that the proper duty of the Government was to pass its time reading and digesting Blue-books. That, indeed, would be an unhappy aggravation of our lot. I am sure that if the Bill is sent to a Select Committee no undue delay will occur, and that it will stand a greater chance of success if it is treated in that manner. is one of the many cases in life in which it is best to grasp your nettle. You will not get rid of the difficulties in this matter, or avoid the temporary disadvantages of the change, by the appointment of any number of Select Committees; and, for my part-without desiring to introduce any controversial question-I attach so much importance to this change that I believe, if you carry it out, it will be of infinitely more advantage to the commerce of the country than all the fiscal remedies proposed by official or nonofficial members of the Government. THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: I desire to associate myself with all that has fallen from my noble friend Earl Spencer, except his alarming definition of the functions of *THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRthe Executive Government, which, 1 ALTY (The Earl of SELBORNE): My think, he gave expression to at a moment Lords, if the noble Earl will allow me to of inadvertence. I cannot find in the say so, I think he has failed at a point arguments brought forward by the where failure is the last thing I should Government any support for the course have expected of him. He has not quite they recommend. Of course, there are grasped the point of the Motion which difficulties. But this is one of the many my noble friend proposes to make. He cases in which you will not evade your speaks of the reference of this Bill, after difficulties by procrastination. All that it has been read a second time, to a Select needs to be inquired into in this matter Committee as a dilatory proposal. But is contained in the Report of the Select is it? When the House of Commons Committee of the House of Commons of appointed a Select Committee they did 1895. The noble Marquess thinks not appoint it to deal with a Bill. that that was a cursory examination That Select Committee dealt with the of the subject. Well, the Blue- policy. We do not propose that the book ought to be ample enough Committee of your Lordships' House even for those who discharge the functions should deal with the policy, but with the of the Executive Government. I admit Bill. In dealing with the Bill the Select that the people of this country are, in Committee of your Lordships' House will these matters, extremely conservative and have the whole work of the House of slow to adopt changes. But when we Commons' Committee at its disposal, as recollect that nearly two centuries ago well as other evidence if it chooses to take they faced the difficulty of adopting a it, for I understand that a Select Comtotally new calendar, I do think there mittee has full discretionary powers in will be the trouble the noble Marquess that matter. It will serve the function apprehends in inducing them to accept of putting this Bill through the Committee this change in weights and measures of your Lordships' House in its most conunless the Bill be referred to a Select Com-venient form. That is why the Motion is mittee. I never saw a greater distinction submitted, and it is on those grounds between the human being and the official that I ask your Lordships to accept the being than was displayed by the noble Government's proposal. Lord who represents the Government. We all know that there is a difference between the two beings, but I do not think I ever saw it so clearly illustrated as by the noble Lord. "As an individual," said the noble Lord, "I am entirely with the mover and seconder of the Bill; but as an official I am desired by the Government THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: Are there any points which have been suggested by the representative of the Board dealt with in Committee of the Whole of Trade that cannot perfectly well be House just in the same way as other Bills are dealt with? *THE EARL OF SELBORNE: It is a matter of opinion; but I think a Select Committee is the simplest and most effective way of dealing with the Bill. by this House on 25th May last year with regard to the Parliamentary session, and to ask His Majesty's Government whether they propose to take any steps with reference to it. Lest there should THE DUKE OF RUTLAND: My Lords, be any doubt as to the Motion which if the Bill is to be referred to a Select Com- is referred to in the notice, I may as well mittee, and that Committee is not to call explain that the Motion was an attempt witnesses, I see no reason why it should on my part to induce Parliament, and, not go to the Committee. But if, on the incidentally, society to adopt more other hand, the Bill and the subject are reasonable habits, and to conform, in both to be sent to the Select Committee short, to the usual practices of civilised and witnesses are to be called, then I do nations by doing such work as we are see inconvenience and delay in such a called upon to do, preferably in the As I understand it, the Govern-winter to the months of July and August. ment propose simply to send the Bill to Although I was temporarily, perhaps I ought to say momentarily, successful in this endeavour, and although I succeeded in obtaining the support of the noble Duke who at that time led this House, I refrained, with great consideration, from pressing the noble Duke on the subject, because I felt some doubt in my own mind as to whether he would continue in this office, and those apprehensions course. the Committee. LORD TWEEDMOUTH: I think it is quite clear, from the language which has been used from the Front Bench opposite, that the Government are entirely in favour of this Bill and desire to see it pass into law. With that view they have proposed that the Bill should go to a Select Committeee, not for the purpose of taking evidence with regard to the Bill, but for the purpose of examining its provisions, making alterations in its details, and so enabling it more easily to pass through the Committee stage in this House and in Grand Committee. It is all very well to say that, by that course, the passage of the Bill into law is not endangered. Noble Lords opposite know as well as I do that if a Bill in the hands of a private Member is to pass through the House of Commons it must get to that House in good time, otherwise it is certain to be shut out. I can offer a suggestion to the Government which I hope they will accept, as it will be the best way of proving that they are really in earnest in their desire that the Bill should pass. It is that the Bill should go to a Select Committee on the conditions that have been stated, and that after the Bill has returned to, and passed through the other stages of, your Lordships' House, then the Government should make it a Government Bill in the House of Commons. have unfortunately been justified. Now we are nominally, at all events, at the beginning of another session-I say nominally because I have very little doubt that, in about a fortnight's time, we shall be adjourning indefinitely because we have nothing to do. This being the case, it appears to me that it is time to ask whether anything is going to be done with reference to the Motion adopted by the House. This House I have not the smallest intention of repeating the arguments which I advanced last year. They were apparently considered satisfactory, and I own that I do not think that was at all surprising, as I contend they were founded upon good sense. Parliament met last year about the middle of February. adjourned, I think, towards the end of March. We practically did not sit at all during April; we sat during a portion of May; we adjourned during a portion of we met again May and June; and towards the middle of June, and until the month of August we were occupied in On Question, Bill read 2a, and referred debating matters of a more or less abstract to a Select Committee. THE PARLIAMENTARY SESSION. *LORD NEWTON: My Lords, I rise to call attention to the Resolution adopted description and in discussions often of a somewhat desultory character. It was not until August that we had the usual influx of Bills from the Commons, and they were to use an expression which is much in favour with the Front Bench, "dumped" down on this House, some of them in a somewhat raw and unfinished condition. There was only one Bill of really firstclass importance last session-namely, the Irish Land Bill. That Bill made its first effective appearance here on 3rd August, upon which day the Second Reading was taken. On 6th August we entered upon the Committee stage; on the first night we wrestled with the technicalities of the Bill until a disreputable hour so far as we are concerned. On 7th August the discussion was continued, and the Committee stage was brought to an end at a late hour in the evening. I want to call particular attention to what occurred on this evening. When we had disposed of the Irish Land Bill we set to work and considered a Fertilisers and Food Stuffs Bill. We then took the Second Reading of the Naval Works Bill, which was introduced in a somewhat lengthy speech by the noble Earl the First Lord of the Admiralty. We then embarked upon the Post Office Sites Bill and passed it through Committee. We then took the Second Reading of the Employment of Children Bill a fairly important measure, which was introduced in an equally long speech by the noble Lord who represents the Home Office; and after that we proceeded to the consideration of the Ireland Development Bill, whatever that may be. Having disposed of that, a noble Lord on this side of the House called attention to the grievances of reserve officers. I had a grievance myself which I was anxious to air against my noble friend the Foreign Secretary, and I always look back upon that night with a feeling of resentment, because, owing to the congested state of the business, I was able to make no impression on my noble friend, when my turn came, and he therefore escaped scot free. This is an instance of the amount of work we crowd into an August day, or, perhaps, it would be more correct to say, an August evening. 7th August was a Friday. On the follow ing Monday-10th August-we embarked upon a large number of Bills-seven or eight altogether. On 11th August the Irish Land Bill was read a third time and on 12th August the Motor Car Bill was disposed of. On 13th August the noble Earl the Leader of the Opposition put a series of conundrums to the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, embracing all those questions which presumbly he had forgotten to ask at an earlier period of the session; and on 14th August Parliament was prorogued. To resume for a moment fiscal phraseology I feel inclined to ask-How much longer are we going to take this lying down? The noble Earl on the Cross Benches, Lord Rosebery, whose support I was fortunate enough to obtain, stated that in the month of August this House was annually converted into a dustheap, and he made a bold and drastic suggestion that the House of Lords should go on strike. Not being possessed of the courage and enterprise of the noble Earl I do not advocate such drastic measures. I shudder to contemplate what grave constitutional difficulties would arise if we took that course; but I have a much more conciliatory proposal which I beg beg to suggest to the noble Marquess. Ĭ recognise, myself, as everybody else must do, that we cannot be the sole judges in this matter, and that we cannot consult our own convenience only. It is perfectly obvious that we cannot carry out any change unless we can get the House of Commons to agree with us. What I therefore suggest to my noble friend is this: That he should use his influence with the present Leader of the House of Commons, whoever he may be, and induce him to give facilities for & discussion on a Motion in similar terms to that which has been adopted by this House. We shall then ascertain what the opinion of the House of Commons is upon this question. There is really no reason why a few hours should not be given to the discussion of this subject in the House of Commons, because at this time of the year that House has some spare time on its hands. If the proposal is accepted-and I personally entertain a strong belief that it only requires to be talked about sufficiently in order to be adopted, and that the House of Commons will find that it suits their convenience as much as it does hand, they reject it, there is an end, at ours- -we'l and good; if, on the other all events for the time being, of the matter. But what I do respectfully desire to impress upon the noble Marquess *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I had not the advantage of being in your Lordships' House last year when my noble friend introduced this subject, but I had an opportunity of reading the statement which he made, and I am bound to say that I thought his arguments were of the most convincing kind. At any rate, if he had desired again to take the sense of your Lordships' House, I certainly should have voted with him. My noble friend, I think, rests his case upon the true ground. We hear a great many arguments in favour of an earlier prorogation of Parliament which do not appeal very much to us. I suppose we would all of us like to see more of the country at a time when the country is at its best; but London, after all, is not a very intolerable place even in the dog days, and we can scarely, I think, on grounds of private convenience, ask to have the customs of Parliament changed. Nor am I greatly impressed by the argument connected with field sports which is sometimes addressed to us. I agree with what was said as to this last year by Lord Ribblesdale even with an autumn session there would be plenty of opportunities for those who wished to pursue either a sporting life diversified by politics, or a political life diversified by sport. The real reason, it seems to me, for a change of this kind is that which noble friend my has stated I mean the fact that the present system does not enable the House of Lords to perform adequately and efficiently the duties which belong to it under our Constitutional system. I have now for a great number of years watched events in this House; and I am bound to say it seems to me almost a scandal that, year after year, important matters VOL. CXXX. [FOURTH SERIES.] of business should be crowded before us measures But, my Lords, as I said a moment ago, I wish nothing but well to my noble friend's proposal, and if I could advance it in any way I should be glad to do so. The noble Duke who spoke last year on behalf of the Government made it perfectly clear that the question was the Prime one in which the other House of |