how far it is built? The Government re- freight contracts with tramp steamersfused the offer made by this responsible the fear that they might be penalised by firm of contractors-who were prepared the Conference lines at a future timeto give His Majesty's Government any guarantee they wanted, and who have built over 2,000 miles of railway in South Africa-with the melancholy result, as stated by the noble Earl, that the average cost of construction per mile amounted to £13,000.

There was an offer also to construct the Uganda Railway for £3,400 per mile in four years. It was decided, however, to construct it departmentally, and instead of being built in four years the railway was not built for eight or nine years, and at a cost of £9,500 a mile. That is another instance of what the loss has been to Uganda and the Empire by the Government attempting to do departmentally what I believe could be much better done if it had been entrusted to efficient contractors. The noble Duke has referred

showed that they did not understand their business. There are large number of tramp steamers outside the Conference, and there is no danger whatever in His Majesty's Government throwing the whole of their freight contracts open to tender in the same way that the Government of India does.

*THE DUKE OF MARLBOROUGH: I

promised the noble Earl at the end of last session that His Majesty's Government would put up an open tender to South Africa. They did so; they invited tenders for 50,000 tons, but there was no acceptable response whatever. Therefore I I think the noble Earl's objection is removed.

that although the Colonial Office invited open tenders for 50,000 tons, a condition was imposed which nobody but those in the Conference lines could accept, for those who tendered for the 50,000 tons

EARL GREY: That is another interto freights, and has pointed out that esting point which would make an exshipping freights vary according to com-cellent subject for inquiry. I am informed petition. My point is this, that the action of His Majesty's Government has not encouraged competition. It is well known that the Chartered Companyalthough, as my noble friend Lord Carrington said, they are only a handful of white men in a savage country, and although they only have a little traffic to play with-have been able to reduce the rates from 33s. to 16s. The result of this action was to cause the Conference rates to go down. The noble Duke stated, and I was glad to hear it, that those rates stand to-day at 16s.

had to make themselves liable to
the Government, should the Govern-
ment wish to exercise an option, to carry
an additional 100,000 tons later on;
and no shipowner outside the Conference
ring could possibly accept
tract of that character.

con

I hope the noble Duke will give his best attention to that question. I hope I have said enough to justify me in expressing the hope that the Government will of appointing a Committee of Inquiry really seriously consider the desirability into the whole subject. I have looked into this question, not only in South Africa, but in other parts of the world. The same thing occurred in the Malay Peninsula, in Ceylon, and elsewhere, and the excess in the cost of works owing to their being undertaken by the Crown Agents has caused the greatest indignation. I am sorry to hear it said that in addition to their salaries the Crown Agents are paid an additional percentage on the outlay. When a Crown Agent is acting for the taxpayers of this country and for our Colonists, to remunerate him by a system which makes it to his direct pecuniary

advantage that the bill should be a high | We have not come here armed with inone cannot possibly be right. I would formation as to the affair of the steamer, prefer that they were paid a higher fixed salary, if necessary, and that this most improper form of remuneration should be abolished. I hope the noble Marquess the Leader of the House will be able to see his way to institute an inquiry into the administration of the Crown Agents' Office, which inquiry I regard as absolutely necessary in the public service.

EARL CARRINGTON: Before the noble Marquess replies, I should like to ask him if he can inform the House what has been the amount of the commission paid to Crown Agents year by year during the past five years.

or of the railway; but I am bound to say that if we are to judge of the noble Earl's case with regard to other railways, from what he has said on the subject of the Uganda Railway, I should be inclined to anticipate that a great many of his allegations will be found incapable of serious proof. The noble Earl has told us that it was within his knowledge that the Uganda Railway might have been constructed within four years, at a cost of about £3,000 per mile.

EARL GREY: I said the offer was made.

*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE : That is a very different thing. It is perfectly true that the offer was made, and it is also perfectly true that it was not accepted. But I think the Government have some cause of complaint of the noble Earl's action with respect to the Uganda Railway. During many weeks of last session a notice in reference to the Uganda Railway stood the Paper in the name of the noble Earl. Some of us took the trouble to inform ourselves as to the case, and were ready to come down to the House to reply upon it; but the noble Earl never brought it on; and now he springs it upon us, and supports his argument by statements which appear to me reckless. If the noble Earl will put a Question on the Paper with regard to the Uganda Railway, the Government will be prepared to meet him. The whole of the speech of the noble Earl was an indictment of the system of Crown Agents. I do not say that the system is not capable of improvement, but I ask the House to consider whether the suggested alternative is likely to work as well. There are no fewer than forty-four of these colonies and protectorates which are concerned in business of this kind. If there was not a central office in the hands of Crown Agents, all those colonies and protectorates would go into the markets simultaneously buying the same thing and bidding against each other. Of course, Crown Agents make mistakes; but I do not believe the insinuations made against them this evening are well founded; and

*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE): My Lords, I have no doubt that if the noble Earl will place his Question on the Paper, it will be answered by my noble friend beside me. With regard to the speech delivered by the noble Earl below the Gangway, I cannot help thinking that he has followed a course not very convenient to your Lord-on ships, and hardly calculated to advance the cause which he has at heart. The noble Lord, in almost impassioned terms, appealed to the representatives of the Colonial Office to grant him what he calls an impartial inquiry into the manner in which the Crown Agents have performed their duties. I do not find in the notice which is on your Lordships' Paper a word about a Committee or an impartia inquiry. The noble Earl who introduced this subject placed upon the Paper a series of categorical Questions, which he had a perfect right to ask, and those Questions were answered in great detail and with much clearness by my noble friend the noble Duke. The noble Earl below the Gangway has gone into a host of details to which the notice on the Paper does not in any way point. He has asked for information with regard to the conditions under which a steamer was provided, under which more than one line of railway was constructed, and he has animadverted in unmeasured terms on the conduct of the Crown Agents in dealing with these different enterprises.

PAPERS LAID UPON THE TABLE BY three months work still to be done over THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE.

the inadequacy of accommodation provided at Lerwick post office for the employees and for the public; and, if so, when the construction of a new building may be looked for.

(Answered by Lord Stanley.) I am aware of the inadequacy of the accommodation provided in the present post office at Lerwick, and am taking steps to obtain a site for a new building as soon as possible.

Pension of ex-Postman P. J. Cahill.
MR. NANNETTI (Dublin,
Green) To ask the Postmaster-General

:

College

the time when he began to perform a full time adult duty that his service could be reckoned for pension.

Promotion of Telegraphists to Engineer's
Department.

MR. YOXALL (Nottingham, W.): To ask the Postmaster-General whether he

will explain why it is proposed to curtail the opportunities at present given to telegraphists to obtain appointments in the engineering department by recruiting the office staffs in this section from boy copyists.

(Answered by Lord Stanley.) The ques

will be made.

Applications for Postmastership of Castle
Douglas.

whether he is aware that ex-postman tion of the manner in which the staff of Patrick J. Cahill, of Dublin, passed the the engineer's offices shall be recruited Civil Service examination in September, is under consideration. I am not pre1871, secured his appointment to the establishment, as messenger, in London, pared to say at present what proposals and continued in that capacity (having in March, 1872, been transferred to Dublin) until March, 1875; that he was then allocated the duty which for about twenty years previously had been performed by an established postman; and, if so, whether, having regard to his claim on the Department, as secured by his Civil Service certificate and appointment to the establishment in September, 1871, and to the fact that he was not required to pass any further examination, he will explain the grounds on which the Department refuses to treat as pensionable his certificated service from September, 1871, to September, 1878.

MR. BELL (Derby): To ask the Postmaster-General whether he will give the date and number of the Post Office Circular in which applications were invited for the postmastership of Castle Douglas; and if he will state the number of applicants for the position.

The

(Answered by Lord Stanley.) vacancy was not notified in the Post Office Circular, as I filled it by the appointment of the Assistant Secretary to the Natal Post Office. This officer had been trans(Answered by Lord Stanley.) Cahill was ferred to the Colonial service from the a boy messenger up till 1875, when he Post Office service in London; and, as became an auxiliary postman. Service he had gained much useful experience as boy messenger is not pensionable. and rendered excellent service in Natal, The auxiliary duty which he performed I was glad to be able to comply with his from 1875 to 1878 was only part time application for reappointment to a post duty and was also not pensionable. This in this country. duty had been performed from 1873 to 1875 by another auxiliary postman and not by an established postman. Previous to 1873 it had formed part of an established postman's duty, but a rearrangement was made in that year under which the established duty was split up. Although Cahill had to obtain a Civil Service certificate in 1871 for appointment as boy messenger, a further certificate became necessary and was obtained for him when he was appointed tot he establishment. It was only from

Regulations for Halfpenny Post. MR. H. C. RICHARDS (Finsbury, E.): To ask the Postmaster-General if his attention has been called to the surcharges made by the Department under the halfpenny postal rate on open order forms where the word "send" has been employed, whilst the words "per Sutton are permitted to pass under the halfpenny rate; and, if so, will he give directions for remedying the inconvenience caused to traders by the delay