stitution was incomplete through the incompetency of one of its

branches.

Lord Redesdale was persuaded that the majority of the Catholics were not anxious that the question should be agitated, because they were persuaded that the purpose could never be accomplished. He denied that any pledge had been or could be given to the Catholics at the time of the union; and with respect to Mr. Pitt, he affirmed that in a conversation with himself he had said that he had not been able to devise any plan for effectually securing the Protestant if the Catholic claims were granted. It was of the essence of the constitution as established at the revolution, that the King should be a Protestant, and it must consequently be essential that the ministers and officers employed in conducting the affairs of government should not be Catholics.

The Marquis of Lansdowne could not content himself with giving a silent vote in favour of the motion. He would contend, in answer to the supposed danger to the constitution from the relief sought, that the disabilities of the Catholics formed no part of the British constitution. In forming a judgment of the Catholics of Ireland, their lordships were only to look at the principles they professed and the conduct they pursued, and it was unfair to go back to the doctrines of councils now exploded. Not a single instance had been produced in which the interference of the pope had produced any effect in the management of the affairs of any country in Europe. The Catholics had

proved their loyalty by their glorious actions in the Peninsula ; but if there was any apprehension of the influence of a foreign power, that might be provided against when their lordships went into a committee. He considered granting the claims of the Catholics as necessary to the completion of the union.

The Bishop of Norwich was of opinion that it was expedient to gratify the just expectations of the Irish Catholics. Various examples showed the advantages arising from the employment of talents in the public service, without regard to difference in religion. It was with regret that he differed from his brethren on the bench, and other wise good men, on this subject, but his arguments were derived from authorities to whom all parties were accustomed to look with respect

from Locke, Hoadley, Stillingfleet, and Wake. And when he quoted the opinions of such men as Burke, Fox, Pitt, and Windham, he felt that he referred to an authority greater than that of the two universities, or of all the divines in the country. No one was more ready than himself to prove his attachment to the established church, which he believed to be the purest form of Christian worship established upon earth; but he must decline giving such a proof of his sincerity as to declare the Catholics idolaters, and that they ought not to be admitted to the highest offices of the state.

The Earl of Buckinghamshire thought that the policy of foreign countries relative to different religions was no ground for our conduct; and he mentioned, with dis

approbation, some of the proceedings of the Irish catholics on the present occasion.

The Earl of Aberdeen said, that of all the applications on this subject, the present was the most unseasonable in time and circumstances; yet he was convinced that the question must finally be carried, and that, at no distant period. He wished that the Irish catholics had followed the example of their brethren in England, and forborne to press their petition at this time.

Earl Spencer rose chiefly to advert to an assertion made by Lord Redesdale in speaking on this question that there were other grounds for Mr. Pitt's resignation in 1801, than his not being able to carry into effect his intentions respecting the Catholics. He said that this was the reason given publicly, and what had operated on himself, and that he had never heard of any other. He admitted that no positive and distinct pledge had been given to the catholics, but he knew that the measure of an union was undertaken in the contemplation of such a plan.

Lord Redesdale, in explanation, affirmed that Mr. Pitt in conversation on this subject, admitted the difficulties to be so numerous, that he did not see how to provide the means of accomplishing this object.

Lord Grenville felt himself called upon as one of the friends of Mr. Pitt; and appealed to all who were connected with or attached to him, and even to those who differed with him in political sentiments, whether he had left that character behind him which could give credit to an imputation that in those awful moments

of our public affairs he had deserted his duty to his king, his country, and the whole civilized world, on motives different from those which he had publicly avowed? For his part, he could not entertain the least suspicion that the grounds of his retirement were any other than those agreed on by Mr. Pitt and himself to be stated to parliament on that occasion; and he lamented that a great opportunity was then lost, which would never recur with equal advantage, through the misguided councils, and by the wicked misconceptions, imposed on the mind of the sovereign.

The Lord Chancellor said, that he had always entertained so sincere and rooted an opinion on the subject, that he could not suffer the motion to be discussed without declaring his sentiments, though he might be called a bigot for them. With respect to Mr. Pitt, he averred upon his honour, that in many conversations with him, he could never learn what securities or safeguards he had to propose for the protestant establishment in case of granting the catholic claims. He had never heard of any but the veto, in which the Catholics refused to concur. The revolution was founded on a belief that certain tenets existed which precluded persons holding them from power; and the existence of these tenets was now denied. We had therefore been guarding the constitution by various laws, which we were now told meant nothing. Was he too rash in standing on the principles which united and knitted together a protestant state and constitution, and a protestant church establishment, for the

express purpose of handing them down together to the remotest posterity? To any charge of bigotry he should only answer, give me your distinct propositions, explain to me your safeguards and securities, and I will seriously examine them on their own grounds; but I will not consent to go into a committee on any general statement of a petition.

Lord Holland spoke with much force in refutation of the arguments advanced by the Chancellor. He contended that in cases like the present, the onus probandi lay not upon those who claimed, but upon those who refused, the rights questioned. Though it might be often unsafe to discuss abstract rights, yet no one could properly understand questions of this nature whose mind was not imbued with the grounds on which civil and religious liberty rest. The noble and learned lord had calumniated the Revolution by the way in which he had spoken of it, as if it had nothing further in view than providing that the King should be a protestant. It embraced much higher interests; it was a great question between the power of the crown and the rights of the people. The proposal for making the test act a fundamental law was rejected both then, and at the union with Scotland; and it was

in vain to say that such laws were inherent in the constitution of England, since they did not subsist from Magna Charta to the Reformation, nor from that period till Charles II. As to the matter of the supremacy, was not Scotland a part of the kingdom? yet the Scotch church totally rejected such a doctrine. If, in the decrees of councils and other Romish documents, there were uncancelled doctrines which were repugnant to the principles of the Bri tish government, there were doctrines in the homilies of the church of England decidedly in opposi tion to the Bill of Rights. With respect to the objection of unfitness of the present time for bringing on such a subject, he thought, on the contrary, that of all periods it was the fittest, as the concession would come with the best grace now that the successes in Portugal had removed all immediate danger of an invasion of Ireland, so that any favour shown to the Catholics could not be attributed to fear.

After some other lords had spoken on each side, and the noble mover had made a brief concluding speech, the House divided; when there appeared, Contents 36 Not-contents 74 Proxies 26 Proxies

62

47

121

Majority against the motion, 59.

2,050,000

3,000,000

200,000

400,000

Making a total for the army

Ordnance

2,100,000

£. 54,308,453

lian subsidy, and to throw himself upon the indulgence of the committee for an inadvertent omission of which he had been guilty reThe com specting that vote.

mittee would recollect, that when he proposed the vote in the last session for the Sicilian subsidy, he founded his application not alone upon a treaty then subsisting, but upon one at the time in a state of progress, which as soon as it should be received in this country, he pledged himself should be laid before the House. That treaty had been received during the recess; and when he proposed the vote on a former day for the Sicilian subsidy, he thought that the treaty had been laid upon the table. It was not till within a few days that he discovered his mistake, and as he should be able within two or three days to lay it before the House, he trusted he should be paraoned for the unintentional omission of which he had been guilty.

The joint charge for the supplies which he had already enumerated was, as the committee would recollect, 54,374,485/. The separate charge for Great Britain was for loyalty loan, 1797, 113,416.; interest of exchequer bills, 1,600,000l.; total separate charge, 1,713,4161.:-making in all a total charge of 56,021,869. If from this be deducted the sum of 6,569,000l. there will remain to be provided for the service of Great Britain 49,452,869/.

He came now to state the ways and means by which he proposed to meet these various items of supply. The first article he should mention was the amount of the annual taxes, which he took at the usual sum, 3,000,000l. ; surplus of the produce of the consolidated fund last year over its estimated produce, 1.363,780l.; surplus of the consolidated fund for the present year, estimated at 5,000,000l.

Before he should go into explanations, he conceived it would be desirable for him to state all the items, after which he should take occasion to enter into a detailed consideration of any articles which might seem to require explanation. The war taxes he should take at 20,000,000l.; lottery, 300,000l.; exchequer bills, part of the seven millions which had been funded this session, 4,000,0007.; the remaining three millions not being to be re-issued, but to be set against the vote of credit of last year: the vote of credit for the present year, 3,000,0007.; loan in the 5 per cent stock, 4,981,300l.; in the 3 and 4 per cents 7,500,000l.; making together, 12,481,300l.; naval stores, 420,3647.; making a total of ways and means of 49,555,379l.; giving an excess of 102,000l. above the supplies of the year.

He should now, with the permission of the committee, proceed to state the ground upon which he was led to estimate the surplus of the consolidated fund for the present year at five millions. The produce of the consolidated customs he had, upon an average of the two preceding years, estimated at 4,485,5381., but they had actually produced 4,987,391%. being an excess of the produce above the estimate of more than 500,000l. Taking the two last years average as the basis of his estimate for the present year, he felt himself warranted in taking the produce of the consolidated customs at 5,000,000l. The consolidated excise upon the average of the two preceding years, he had last year estimated at 16,880,625.; whereas, in point of fact, it had produced 17,399,3127.; upon the