had endeavoured to explain how it happened formed one of the most nimble evolutions which he had ever witnessed. The hon. gentleman "How turned round on a sudden, and asked, do you know there is any such paper in existence?" He would answer that question by saying, that if he did not know the fact before, be knew it now; if the paper had not been in existence, the rt. hon. gent. would have said so, and that would have satisfied the hon. mover at once : just as the one reason, in the story, for not saluting-namely, that there were no guns or ammunition, was held to be more logical than the other twelve (a laugh). As to the argument, that it would serve no good pur-house could not be made the subject of obserpose to have Lord Wellesley's opinion on the vation. Any persons in any society, in any subject in writing, because that opinion was debating-club, in any tavern-meeting, in any already known by the proxy which he had smoking-room, in any ale-house in England, given, he was at issue with the rt. hon. gent. Wales, Ireland, or Scotland, might meet in He desired to see the language of the despatch safety and discuss, without hearing a word in which the noble lord had declared his opi- about breach of privilege, every act, every nions, rather than the dumb proxy allowed by word, every speech, aye, every gesture of any the custom of another place. He wished to individual member of the House of Lords, and know the reasons by which the noble lord be just as safe the moment after as they were the moment before (laughter). But he could backed his opinion. He wished to see the renot do so in that house. Well, it was a case of lation in which that recommendation stood to other recommendations of his lordship, on which necessity, and he must submit. He had no Parliament had passed measures of great im- right to make any allusion to what was said in portance. In what way had the session begun? the House of Lords. But there was nothing to In the King's Speech, they were recommended prevent him-there he was on an equal footing to take measures against the Catholic Asso- with a stranger out of doors-from alluding to a libel which had been published, and which ciation. And why? Because it was said to be dangerous to the peace of Ireland. And how he expected to see prosecuted both in England was that proved?" By the despatch," said and Ireland-he meant a speech purporting to the King's Speech," of my viceroy in Ire-be a speech of a most considerable person-of land; here is the result of his experience and observation, and he advises that a law should be passed to put down the Catholic Association." If any country had been ill used in this proceeding, it might be Ireland-if any Country had a right to complain, it might be England as well as Ireland. But there was one individual, and he an illustrious one, who had a great right to complain of the manner in which he had been treated in regard to his country-that country which might be happy under his sway, if he were allowed to pursue an undivided, uniform, and consistent system of government, but whose government, as matters now stood, distracted as it was, by one man being set to pull one way, and another to draw another way with equal and opposite forcethus counteracting the efforts of each other produced no result which the country or Parliament had a right to expect (hear, hear). On the noble lord's authority coercion had been resorted to; on his recommendation the Catholic Association had been put down; but coupled with that recommendation was, as he was informed, a strong and anxious wish that they should accompany coercion with conciliation. They had adopted the first part of his recommendation, the rest they had given to empty air. Was it fair, reasonable, or consistent, or was it doing justice to Lord Wellesley, to ask Parliament to pass measures bearing a harsh and unpleasing aspect-to put down tumult, without at the same time doing what came recommended from the same parental mouth opening the door of the constitution to the bulk of the Irish people? But ministers withheld those measures which would prove Lord Wellesley consistent, as well as kind and humane, because they would prove that they, ministers, had taken a false estimate of what the exigencies of the time required. The rt. hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer high military commanders, the highest-of those that when he came to the throne he would not govern according to the principles of the constitution, but according to a model and scale of his own-a scale which even James II. never dreamed of governing by, or if he did dream of it, never whispered it to the world when his conduct originated the bill of exclusion, or when it caused him to be actually excluded, to make way for his Royal Highness the Duke of York and family (cheers). James II. had never said any thing one-millionth part so scandalous as that which was attributed to the Royal Duke in this libel. He was glad that an example would be made of the printer here, and the circulator in Ireland, of this atrocious paper. He was extremely happy to find that the Attorney-General had resolved not to follow his usual practice of filing an ex-officio information. To move the Court of 2L : speaking of other assemblies as the House of Commons was. What would be said to him, if he were to talk of a noble and learned lord in the other house, as that learned individual, for reasons of his own, most conscientiouslyfor he must be taken to be more conscientious than any other man, as he was always talking of his conscience-had chosen to speak of two members of that house, whom he alluded to as lawyers" eminent in their own estimation?" But with respect to much of the trash which had been uttered in another place about the manner in which the Catholic bill was framed, he could relate an anecdote, which might teach some persons the propriety of being more modest on such a topic. He remembered on one occasion, the noble and learned lord talked for half an hour about the provisions of a bill which had gone up to the other house. "Was ever," said the learned lord," such stuff to be seen on the statute-book?" There, by-the-bye, the learned lord showed but a moderate acquaintance with the statute-book, for there was no absurdity which might not be found there. "What lawyer," continued the learned lord, King's Bench was more satisractory (a laugh), | as it would afford the Royal Duke an opportunity of denying on oath, which he knew he was very anxious to do, that he had spoken the speech which was falsely attributed to him. But the Royal Duke was not the only person who had suffered in public estimation from the misrepresentations which had gone abroad respecting them. With respect to a noble marquis, who had been alluded to, he must say he thought he had been misunderstood. All that he had intended to say was, that if this country was to enter into a struggle respecting the Catholic question-that last and most dreadful of all the calamities before them-it was better that we should do so now than at a period when we had a foreign enemy; and there he agreed with the noble lord. The noble lord had, perhaps, not being used to public speaking, expressed himself rather awkwardly, just as he (Mr. Brougham) might get into a scrape, if he were to attempt to review any of the noble lord's military operations (a laugh). Now he came to the rt. rev. prelates (a laugh), two of whom were held up to public estimation. One t. rev. prelate who had formerly supported" could have written this?" Thus, most conscithe Catholics-before he became a bishop (a entiously, advertizing him (Mr. Brougham) — laugh), but who was now opposed to them had for the bill was his-to his clients, as a person -would it be believed?-this bishop, being of who was no lawyer. It turned out that the sound mind (a laugh), in order to prove that very parts of the bill to which the learned lord he and his right rev. brethren had no sinister objected had been written by himself six months motive in opposing the Catholic claims, but before, and he had forgotten it. He pulled out were actuated by nothing but what was most of his pocket, in the presence of a near relative pure, had referred to the case of the seven of the noble lord, the manuscript with all the bishops-the very seed of the church. But, absurdities in the noble lord's hand-writing to good Lord Bishop, very different were the which he objected in the printed bill, and which two cases. The seven bishops opposed the he (Mr. Brougham) had introduced only in comKing and the Heir Apparent to the Throne: pliance with the noble and learned lord's wish, they resisted the encroachments of arbi- having in the first instance objected to them trary power; for this they went to trial, himself. Remembering all these things, the and for this they were prepared to go to the rejection of the Catholic bill had not at all discaffold. The good Lord Bishop should re- minished the respect which he had, previously member, too, that by his opposition to the Ca- to that event, entertained for that august astholics, instead of exposing himself, as the seven sembly. It gave him satisfaction, however, to bishops did by their opposition, to the liability know, that though that assembly believed they of going to the tower by water, to be there shut had set the Catholic question at rest by musterup, and afterwards brought to Westminster-halling their large majorities, it never would be for trial, he exposed himself only to the danger set at rest till that was done which alone could of further promotion (a laugh). The most im- tranquillize Ireland, giving her equal justice, minent danger which he would run was that of and making equal law for the millions as well being expelled from his own see to another-it as for the few (hear, hear). The opponents of might be better, but in the common course of the Catholics might set forward their military things it could not be worse (laughter). The commanders, they might array against them jeopardy which he ran was that of going along their subtile lawyers, for the first time changed with the high court party and the heir-ap-by the new light which appeared to have parent; and his extreme devotion towards the broken in upon them from the declaration of rising sun would not, as sometimes happened, war, falsely ascribed to a Royal Duke; and operate injuriously to the rt. rev. Father in God here he must say, that this document appeared in the present reign; for in the course he was to have deceived even the premier, and to have pursuing, he would just do himself as much warmed him into a degree of ardour, obstinacy, good in the present reign as he expected by re- and pertinacity in adhering to policy now exversion in the next (laughter). Surely the per- ploded in the eyes of all reasonable men, which sons who had put forth such libels on the rt. he had never before expressed so determinately rev. prelate to whom he alluded, would be sub- or so dogmatically. They might bring into the jected to prosecution. What could be more field their military patriots, and their legal pascandalous than to make a rt. rev. Father in God triots, and, by the assistance of their proxies,and talk such unaccountable nonsense? That it was their forces from the west and the north, obtain a a libel, any body who ran might see-aye, if he triumph-not over the House of Commons, for of ran as a bishop would from Chester to Durham themselves they should not think for an instant— (laughter); or as a curate ran, which was, it but over Ireland, over England, over right and was said, as the crow flew. He hoped all those over justice. That triumph, however, would be matters, which greatly amused himself and but momentary. They might now exult, but others, would be set right at the earliest op- their tone of exultation would soon be turned into portunity, by bringing the offending parties to another strain. Of one thing let them be well trial. The House of Lords, however, were not assured-they had not done with the Irish placed under such restraint with regard to question by their vote. It was not easy to IRELAND.-Catholic Claims. stifle the cry of six millions of their country- who on a late occasion had prevented the rt. men, even if that cry were wrong; much less hon. gent. (Mr. Canning) from quitting his nawhen it was the cry of right, of reason and of tive country (hear, hear) would interfere again, if they found him resolute; and rather acjustice, against mere brute power and unreasonable obstinacy, which set all justice at quiesce in his opinions than suffer him to quit defiance (cheers). To the people of Ireland his place. He might enjoy, if he would only he would recommend submission to the law condescend to accept it, one of the highest bad, bad as it was; but he agreed with his hon. triumphs which it was possible for ambition to friend in counselling union-above all things conceive; for he (Mr. Brougham) again asunion (cheers). Let no little personal piques serted, as his decided opinion, that it was imor local differences divide thein-let not even possible to try the question as he advised, without securing a glorious victory (much cheerconsiderable differences of opinion for one moment split them who should unite as one man, ing). His hope still was and his prayer, that and who if united must conquer (cheers). The the friends of Catholic concession would end lords-the bishops-the heir presumptive to the their compromise and save Ireland; but if throne-all could not defeat them, nothing they did not, still he did not despair; nor could do that but their own disunion and vio- would he ever despair of a cause which had the lence. He had to say a few words respecting strength of right, as well as of numbers to back the disunion in the cabinet on the subject of the it (hear, hear). The Catholic cause had prinLet Ireland be but true to herselfCatholic question. It appeared strange that ciple to build itself on, and popular favour to the country should be governed by ministers adorn it. who could agree about a joint stock company, let unanimity prevail among her children-let violence give place to sterling, steady opposibut not upon a question which distracted a great part of the empire. In Mr. Pitt's time, tion, directed systematically and constitutionthat minister was accustomed to say that he ally against a government in which they could could not attend to the Catholic question whilst not for a moment reasonably trust; let Irehe had to watch the Emperor Napoleon: but land only adopt this course, and he had still no now Napoleon was dead, and the Catholic ques-doubt, that, by herself-if left by those who tion was the only important question which called themselves her friends-she might work could arrest the attention of Government. Mr. out her own salvation. Pitt, too, used to say that the late King would not hear of the Catholic question. His late Majesty was an elderly man of formed habits, and his scruples were conscientious, and therefore entitled to some respect. His present Majesty, however, was not in the same situation as his father. He was, to be sure, a man well stricken in years, though not of very venerable age (a laugh), and had no conscientious scruples that be had ever heard of (laughter) with respect to the Catholic question. On the contrary, his Majesty had always stated that he was in favour of Catholic Emancipation. He had repeatedly given his pledge in private to support the question, to the leaders of the measure, and with that they had been satisfied. But he would pursue that matter no further. He could not help feeling regret that those members of the Cabinet who were favourable to the measure should compromise with their colleagues who were opposed to it. He hoped yet to see the day, however, when a stand should be made for the question. If it so happened that they left office, they would, indeed, quit the smile of the court; but they would quit it for the gratitude of the nation, and for the still more delightful and imperishable reward, the applause of their own hearts and self-approving consciences (much cheering). To address himself, however, to those-if any-who might treat recompenses like those as somewhat visionary (hear, hear)-who might consider the applause of a country, and feelings of self-approbation, as topics pleasant to declaim about, but not, in practice, very profitable or desirable (laughter)-to those genflemen he would suggest-and this, at least, Was a doctrine which they would listen to That there would not be much risk in making the stand which he adverted to, for he did not Think that the sacrifice of places would be deanded. He did not much expect, although He had in his time seen strange things, to see an administration formed out of the hon. member from the west of England (Sir T. Lethbridge) and the right hon. Sec. (Peel). Those persons Mr. Plunkett thought it probable that the resolution had been chiefly moved for the purpose of affording hon. members an opportunity to notice the Catholic question in its present situation; that end having been answered, he was inclined to submit to the hon. mover whether it was worth while to push it any farther. As far as he could learn, the despatch demanded was not required with a view to any measure either pending or intended to be introduced. This being the case, it could only be called for-supposing it to exist-for purposes of abstract discussion-and for such purposes he was not prepared to give it; and if it turned out that no such despatch existed, then the absence of it was to raise a ground for inculpation against the noble marquis at the head of affairs in Ireland. Now he saw no ground made out, as far as either of these intentions went, for calling upon government to produce the despatch in question; nor did he ' think there was any pretence for alleging that ministers had only followed up the coercive measures recommended by Lord Wellesley, the noble lord's and that they now refused to produce the document which contained counsel as to amelioration. He did not know that he could personally speak to the despatches of the noble marquis, but he believed that he was pretty well acquainted with his sentiments; and, as far as he could judge, there had been no measure, either of inquiry, grace, or favour, recommended by him, which the English government had not, in the fullest extent, attended to. Having said thus much and just taking leave to add, that upon the Catholic question generally, he believed the sentiments of the noble marquis to be entirely unchanged; that his opinion as to the paramount necessity of the measure was as strong as it had ever been at any period of his life ; — having said this, he should pass by entirely the question as to the motion itself, and trouble the house with a few observations, in reply to With respect, then, to the those which had fallen from the learned member for Winchelsea. 1 Catholic claims, he thought that the country | tainly of a nature which could not be suffered without pain, and that fact might perhaps seem to make some difference, as to the propriety of continuing to hold office, between his situation and that of some of his hon. friends who were near him. Under such circumstances, he might be pardoned, perhaps, for stating that he had been favoured with an interview with the noble personage in question. The result, however, was, on his part, the most perfect conviction that nothing like offence, or want of kindness, had ever been contemplated towards him. Under these circumstances, he should sit down by declaring that his zeal on behalf of the Catholic claims remained unabated, and that he thought he should best promote the interests of that question by retain was left, by the recent decision, in a situation deeply to be lamented. The difficulty was not merely that the question of Emancipation had failed, but that a positive opposition of opinions was avowed between the lower and the upper House of Parliament. The question had on this occasion been brought forward, by the hon. member for Westminster, without his aid, and he might say without his concurrence. Had his opinion been asked at the time of its introduction, he should certainly have said, that the period chosen was unfortunate; but he had not thought fit to volunteer that declaration after the bill was before the house. In what had happened, all circumstances taken into view, he found nothing to excite surprise; but still less did he see any reason for despond-ing his office (cheers). ing as to the eventual and speedy accomplish- Mr. Canning hoped to induce the hon. memment of the measure; for he agreed entirely ber for Limerick not to press his motion; but, upon this point with the learned member op- after all that had passed, it was impossible for posite, that the success of Catholic Emancipa-him to sit still without troubling the house with tion could never be prevented unless by the a few words. With respect to the reference egregious folly of the Catholics themselves. If which had been made to divided Governments, they would only be tranquil, firm, and re- he had never meant to say that it would not sort to no other arms than those with which the have been desirable to constitute an unanimous constitution supplied them, the success of their administration; but there was a wide differcause was as certain as its justice. For the ence, and such a difference as no wise, and charge that the Catholics themselves were perhaps he might say honest man could fail to careless as to its accomplishment, he cared no- see, between the question of forming a new thing; if the Catholics should come forward Government, and of dissolving one already in to-morrow, and state that they were indifferent existence. He concurred with his rt. hon. about the measure, he should say that they friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and were hypocrites, and did not deserve to be he would say, with the most perfect sincerity believed; he would prefer believing that they of heart, that if he thought his relinquishment were false, to admitting that they were de- of office could conduce to the settlement of the graded. There was no security for the consti- Catholic question, he would not hesitate one tution for the existence of any country, in moment to make the sacrifice. Not that he which five millions of the inhabitants were did not see, without meaning to over-rate any supine about gaining rights which belonged to advantage contingent upon his continuance, them (hear, hear). Having, in an earlier part that his withdrawing himself from the Governof the session, stated fully to the house the ment would be attended with some public disgrounds upon which he supported the Catholic advantage; but he should think that the public claims, he should only take leave to say a few good obtained outweighed that disadvantage. words now as to the consistency of a Govern- But his opinion was founded upon recent and ment's being divided upon so important a anxious deliberation, that his relinquishment of question. As far as precedents went, one of office at present could only serve to bring on the hon. gents. who most vehemently objected public evils of the most tremendous character, to such a division, had himself declared, that as well as to throw the prospects of the object upon the question of Parliamentary Reform-which it was intended to serve still further back a subject scarcely less vital-he should be prepared to form part of an administration not agreed. He believed that if the Government had been formed entirely of individuals inimical to the Catholics, their cause would have made far less progress than it had done. With a divided Government, the Catholic bill had obtained a majority in the House of Commons. His rt. hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had declared that if he thought his giving up office could promote the success of the measure, he should not hesitate a moment to relinquish it. For himself, he might say that he had been placed in one situation at least, in which his sincerity had been tried; and, certainly, he felt no difficulty in making the same declaration. His opinion was, how ever, decided, that such a course could only be prejudicial to the Catholic interests. The learned member for Winchelsea had observed upon an expression, certainly not of a favourable description, supposed to have been used in reference to his conduct by an illustrious person high in office. That comment, although the learned member did hin the honour to place himself also within its bearing, was cer than ever. It was not likely that he should venture to make an assertion which was untrue before a great number of persons who would have the means of judging of its truth; and he did say, standing under those circumstances, that he was convinced that the course recommended to him by the learned member for Winchelsea would be fraught with calamity to the country. This only he would add, that he held himself as perfectly at liberty to discuss the subject in question in the cabinet as any other; but, at the same time, he reserved to himself the discretion of using that liberty at such times as he thought most expedient. With respect to the Catholic question, in its present extraordinary position, he felt some difficulty about stating his opinion; because, in whatever he said, he was liable to one of two accusations. If he said that he thought the question was not so forward in the opinions of the country as he could wish it to be, he should be charged with risking the creation of the evil which he deprecated: if he stated confidently that he thought it had made great progress, then he should be told that he excited hopes, which circumstances afterwards would not enable him to realize. In such a dilemma, | tion of the papers for which he called would he knew but one course, which was to speak utterly falsify his conclusions (hear, hear). the direct truth according to the best of his Sir F. Burdett said, that the speech of the judgment, let the consequence be what it noble lord, which had been so often alluded to might. At the commencement of the present in the course of this night's debate, had struck session, he had said that the minds of the people him as a most extraordinary effusion. He beof England were not matured for the measure. lieved that no speech had ever been made by This had been denied; and different minds, no any public man which produced a more unexdoubt, would draw different conclusions; but, pected and more painful effect on the people from all that had happened during the session, of Ireland, than the one in question. They his opinion remained unchanged. He did, how- had been encouraged to hope that there was at ever, believe that in the higher and more en- least some mitigation of the hostility with which lightened classes of society, great progress had that noble lord had hitherto met the Catholic been made, and he believed that the resistance claims, and at the very moment when the generally was passive rather than active; and country expected, if not his support of the that, where it had been goaded into violent question, at least a very mitigated opposition, motion, it was generally some friends of the he had adopted, for the first time, a tone of uncause who were to be thanked for that result. compromising violence, to which he had never But, whatever was the fact as to England, in before resorted upon any question. That Ireland the difference which manifested itself speech, however, afforded no ground of dewas most striking. That measure, which had spair on the general question. Whatever appeared originally almost in the shape of an might be thought by some hon. members, that appeal by one part of the population against the present session was not favourable to the another part, came now forward almost without discussion of the Catholic question, he was of dissent from any, and bid fair shortly to be re-opinion that the discussion this session had adcommended by all. Such being his view of the vanced it more than that of any other. They state of Ireland, he thought that the question were mistaken who thought that the general feelmust make its way. The ground on which the ing of the country was against it. He knew not bill was resisted was untenable. If the argu- whether it arose from a more sanguine temment proved any thing it proved too much-if perament, or from his anxiety for the advanceCatholics could not be good subjects under a ment of the cause; but he certainly thought Protestant government, they could not be good that he perceived a very different feeling with subjects at all. Besides, he did not like that regard to this question among the public at argument of" divided allegiance," or measur-large; not only among the enlightened and ing men by a scale as it were of moral geo-liberal classes, but even among that uninformed metry. If we had but half the allegiance of the Catholics, why was it we had but half? Homer answered the question, who was a better judge of human nature than Euclid: “A mao," he said, "is but half a man, unless he enjoys all his rights." In glancing, however, at what had passed in another place, he was bound to vindicate one noble friend of his (Lord Liverpool) from the charges which had been thrown out against him by the learned member (Mr. Brougham). The learned gent. seemed to think-a consideration which had given him (Mr. Canning) some pain-that the speech of that noble lord to whom he alluded had been measured after another speech which he had designated as a libel-measured to fall in with it. His noble friend was incapable of such a thought or act. If there was a man in England who would not suit his opinion to the view of any human creature, his noble friend was that man. Indeed, if the learned member had only looked to the whole contents of the speech in question, he would have seen the most glaring, the most perfect, discrepancies between it and the speech to which he endeavoured to assimilate it. Who, among all the persons who had spoken on the subject, had disposed so unceremoniously, yet so satisfactorily, of the idle objection of the coronationoath to the removal of civil disabilities, as this very nobleman, who was represented as imitating the tone of a speech in which the objection of that coronation-oath formed the chief feature? When the learned gent. remembered the weight with which such an admission must come from an opponent like the noble lord, he should not have so unceremoniously condemned him, He would conclude by saying, that if he could sum up his feelings in a few words and perhaps the hon. mover would not undervalue his feelings he could assure him that the produc portion of the public, in which ignorance and The royal person |