dation of Mr. M'Adam's claims upon the public, he should support the grant; but Mr. M'Adam had already received 4,000L; the house was now called upon to vote a further sum of 2,000!., and he believed that they would, ere long, be applied to for further remuneration. discovery. Four years ago he presented a pe-sured that the present sum was to be the liqui tition to the house from a Mr. Lester, who at the same time showed him a book which he had published in 1782, pointing out the very same process of road-making that Mr. M'Adam now claimed as his own; and Mr. Patterson, a surveyor in Forfar, also claimed the merit of having discovered the same process, long before Mr. M'Adam's plan was heard of. Under these circumstances, he thought there was no claim on the ground of originality. He also objected to this claim without having the items of Mr. M'Adam's expenses set forth. From a return which was on the table, he found that Mr. M'Adam was employed on 79 trusts in 28 different counties; and upon that fact he contended that the counties benefited by Mr. M'Adam's system should remunerate him for it, and not the community at large. It was not right that the people residing in Norfolk, in Ireland, or Scotland, should pay for making a fine road from Carlton palace to the Regent's Park (hear). It was said in support of this grant, that Mr. M'Adam had received nothing from the trustees of squares and bridges, and of parishes, to which he had repeatedly given his advice. If that were so, whose fault was it? Certainly not that of the public; and it was therefore unfair to call upon the public to furnish out of its generosity those funds which ought to have been furnished by the justice of those to whom Mr. M'Adam had given his exertions. Sir T. Baring spoke in support of the grant, and contended, that the house, in passing it, would not be establishing any new precedent, inasmuch as there had been upwards of 20 similar grants for similar public benefits in the last 20 years. Mr. H. Sumner acknowledged the great merit of Mr. M'Adam's system, but could not look upon it as a new invention, as the roads in his neighbourhood had been made upon it for the last 50 years. He thought that the greatest national benefits might be compensated at a rate cheaper than the current expense which the services of Mr. M'Adam's family had cost to the country. In five years Mr. M'Adam and his four sons had received from different publie trusts no less than 41,0001. Mr. Maberley referred to the evidence before the committee to justify Mr. M'Adam. He had not thrust himself upon the public. Lord Chichester had testified to the Committee that the Post-office had sought Mr. M'Adam, and his Lordship admitted that in treating with him he had concurred in the propriety of Mr. M'Adam_truating to a public reward. If the hon. member had known of the plan of Mr. M'Adam so long ago, so much the worse for his case : he ought not to have allowed the roads of Surrey to remain as they were, the worst about the metropolis. Mr. F. Palmer was a member of the committee above stairs, and stated the extreme difference of opinion as to the claims of Mr. M'Adam. He thought that there was too much indifference shown to the public money and too much weight given to the merit of Mr. M'Adam. Mr. Hart Davis said that many of the roads repaired by Mr. M'Adam had fallen under his own observation, and he could assure the house, that several, which had been the worst roads in the West of England, had, by Mr. M'Adam's exertions, been converted into the best possible state. Sir E. Knatchbull said that could he feel as | | | Sir. R. Wilson was able to bear unequivocal testimony to the services which Mr. M'Adam had rendered to the public. He did not, however, estimate those services by any quantity of road that Mr. M'Adam had laid down, or even by any quantity that had been laid down by others upon his principles, but he appreciated his merits in introducing a system of improvement, and in originating a series of observations and experiments which had almost brought our roads to an equality with the old Roman roads. As to the objection that he was not the inventor of the present system of roadmaking, he had as clear a right to the merits of invention, as could, from the nature of the case, be established. Individuals had come from all parts of the empire to receive instructions from Mr. M'Adam, and to witness the effects of his system; these persons had dif. fused the benefits of the improvements in every direction, and there were very few interests in the country that did not derive sensible advantage from the ameliorated state of the roads, arising from Mr. M'Adam's ingenuity. He should, therefore, feel it his duty, upon every principle of public utility and private justice, to support the grant. The Committee divided.-For the grant, 83 Against it, 27-Majority in favour of the grant, 56. FOREIGN RELATIONS. Diplomatic Service. MONDAY, MARCH 21.-On the motion (in a committee of supply) that 160,0001. be granted to his Majesty to defray the expense of civil contingencies, Mr. Hume adverted to the large amount of our diplomatic expenditure, of which part came under this grant. That expenditure for the present year amounted to 300,0001. In spite of the suggestions of the Finance Committee, in 1816, that this expenditure should be reduced, we had expended, in the last seven years, 2,060,0001. in the expences of our ambassaiors alone. He complained of the manner in which the diplomatic accounts were intermingled with those of other departments. For instance, in one class of the civil list, 226,0001. was annually charged for the expences of our ambassadors. He was aware that in one year 11,000l., and in another 7,0001. or 8,0001. of this surm had been returned; but the average amount was 226,0001. Now, in addition to this sum, bills were annually sent in from each of our residents, which had reached, he must say, an unwarrantable amount. In 1792, they were but 5,9001.; in 1818, they had reached 27,0001.; but in the last year they amounted to the extraordinary sum of 80,0001. So that our diplomatic expenditure at present amounted to somewhere about 312,0001; and this exclusively of the 60,0001, now wanted for the establishments of our different consuls in South America. He contended that the rt. honSec. (Canning) would consult the interests of the public by withdrawing our ministers from the petty states of Germany, and applying their allowances to defray the expences of our new diplomatic relations in South America. He complained of the great expence occasioned by our embassies to the various great courts of Europe, and especially to that of France, and concluded by expressing a hope that the rt. hon. Sec. would do every thing in his power to lessen them. answer just as well. But he begged to ask the rt. hon. gent. whether Holland, where the Bri tish embassy cost 14,000l. a-year, and where a minister with 6,0001. could do the business, did not wish this country to reduce the rank of the embassy, and complained that she could, not maintain one upon the same diplomatic scale to represent her in Engiand; and he would further ask, why such proposal had been declined by the British government? British Claimants on Spain. Mr. Hume (in the same committee) alluded to the item of 8,2471. for the expences of the Spanish commission for investigating the claims of British merchants. Where were those commissioners-who were they-and what had they done? Mr. Canning said, that the House of Commons in 1816 had minutely examined the whole diplomatic branch of the public expenditure, and laid down a scale for its future arrangement. He had guided himself by the scale then laid down in all his arrangemcat3, and had endeavoured, as much as possible, to make such retrenchments therein as were consistent with the public exigencies. With reference to the different public missions to South America, he thought that the scale of allowance was regu. lated rather lower than above the fair principle of remuneration. It was clear that if this country were disposed to encourage a close con- Mr. Canning said, that a few years ago many nexion with these new governments, they must British ship-owners had incurred heavy losses be prepared to meet the necessary burdens of by captures made upon them by Spanish subthe new expenditure arising out of such a con- jects, contrary to the law of nations. They nexion. But he was surprised at the hon. naturaily solicited their own government to ob gent.'s proposal to defray this expence by a re- tain redress, and various applications had, in trenchment in the diplomatic missions among consequence, been made to the then Spanish the smaller states of Europe. In many of these authorities. After this course had been duly missions to the smaller powers, a larger ques- taken, and no proper redress afforded, the go. tion was involved than the mere expence of vernment issued an order to the British Com diplomacy. The good-will of such powers mander-in-Chief on the West-India station, to was well purchased by the comparatively make reprisals upon the commerce of the trifling expence of the diplomatic establish- Spanish islands to the amount of the British ments; and he could assure the hon. gent., that claimants; but it was thought reasonable that in the three instances in which he had reduced when this order was issued, and before it was the expence of these missions, it had cost the carried into execution, that the government of British government great pains to convince the Spain should be informed of the fact, before courts where such reductions took effect, that summary measures of redress were resorted to it was not intended to lower them in the estima- This led to a further negotiation, in the first tion either of great Britain, or the larger states stage of which the Spanish government conin Europe. With respect to what had fallen ceded an acknowledgment of the principle of from the hon. gent. on the subject of the Paris the British claims, and abandoned that denial of mission, he was confident that the late ambas-justice which was their previous ground. The sador would have been unable, without the aid matter was then referred, upon the admission of of his private property, to have sustained the the principle, to a convention which was to inessential dignity of his diplomatic station out of quire into the specific extent of the losses, for the the public allowances: and as to the present purpose of their eventual liquidation. During ambassador, with whose private affairs he was the preliminary proceedings, the Spanish go better acquainted, he could assure the hon. vernment underwent a change, and the King of gent., that that noble lord (Granville) would Spain upon his restoration annulled all the acts. feel himself perfectly satisfied, if in addition to of the preceding government; but this convenhis allowance of 11,0001., he had not one-half as tion was subsequently recognized, which, inmuch more, perhaps entirely as much, to sup- deed, was the only act of his predecessors ply from his private fortune, in balancing his which his Spanish Majesty had acknowledged. expenditure. He agreed in the propriety of The convention being thus resumed, the com selecting men of independent fortunes to fill missioners went to work but slowly, from the such high offices; but he would add, that they peculiar circumstances under which they had, ought not by undue reductions to make them to act. Months were lost before the King of unfit for others who might be called, without Spain had appointed new commissioners, and such private advantages, into the service of even during the last year the Spanish commistheir country (hear, hear). He repeated, that sioners had been changed no less than three he had endeavoured to regulate this depart times. Notwithstanding these impediments, he ment with reference to the scale agreed upon was glad to state, that of the claims of British in 1816; but he must say, that he did not think merchants, estimated at upwards of 400,0001., the mere mention of particular sums in its ex- nearly 200.0001. had been admitted by the penditure, with a circumscribed reference to Spanish authorities-he wished he could add, particular and evanescent circumstances, the paid (a laugh). That the whole of the claims proper way in which the country ought to esti- would be acknowledged he had no doubt, and mate such matters, either with justice to the in- he did not absolutely despair of their ultimate dividuals, or with reference to the honour and adjustment. As to the expences of the comutility of the public service. missioners, they would not be ultimately de- “ frayed by the public, but by a per centage upon the amount of claims, which were the object of the investigation. Mr. Hume replied, that it was not for him to say, for he had not the necessary information, which of the German embassies ought to be reduced, or why they should be called upon to pay so many thousands a year for an embassy to the Two Sicilies, where a plain consul would This subject was again alluded to on Tues day, June 28, but no further information was elicited. that it was intended to reduce the Army, of Occupation to 22,000 men, continuing an extra corps on foot in the country until the month of April. He had every reason to believe that that extra corps had either been, or was in a course of being withdrawn. With regard to the period when it might be expected that the remaining 22,000 men would be removed from the Spanish territory, he was not prepared to give any opinion, and he doubted if even the French Government could give a satisfactory answer to the question; he, nevertheless, believed that the learned gent. could not be more desirous that the French troops should evacuate Spain, than the French authorities were themselves anxious to commence that operation. They hoped to see all the objects of that occupation fulfilled, and that they might be accomplished, they still retained possession of the country. It certainly appeared that much that had been anticipated on this side of the water, as to the consequences of the presence of the armies of France, had not been realised. He begged to repeat, honestly, as an individual, he felt no degree of apprehension, alarm, or jealousy on the subject. He was satisfied in his conscience that there was a bona fide intention on the part of the French Government to evacuate Spain, as speedily as circumstances would permit. FRIDAY, JULY 1.-Mr. Brougham rose for the purpose of proposing a question to the rt, bon. Secretary (Canning) respecting the military occupation of Spain by France. He had hitherto abstained from asking a single question on this subject, fearful that an open discussion in that house would be productive of mischief, fearful, he might fairly add, the observations which would necessarily be made in the course of such a 'discussion would not only irritate the two houses, but would also have the effect of making worse the situations of those gallant and illustrious characters who were now imprisoned martyrs in the cause of liberty-men who had staked their all, and who had lost all | in that glorious cause, but their honour (hear, hear), which had come out brightened and purified from the ordeal through which it had passed (hear, hear). But now, at the close of the Session, when nothing violent or harsh could be expected to be said, he thought he might without injury venture to propose one question. It had been long since stated, that when Ferdinand was fully restored to power, the French troops were to be withdrawn from Spain. That time had arrived, and still the French troops remained; nay more, they had fortified Cadiz; in addition to which, they held St. Sebastian and several other places. Were they then to Lord J. Russell conld not refrain from remain in Spain as long as the King of France, noticing the melancholy spectacle presented by or as Ferdinand himself wished for their the incarceration of many friends of liberty in presence (hear, hear)? If such was the wish Italy, where men of high education, refined of these two powers, it became the duty of habits, and lofty rank, accustomed to all the England to interfere and prevent it (hear, delicacies of life, were confined in dungeons, hear). It became our duty, because it was con- or performed the drudgery of galley slaves trary to sound policy; it was contrary to the (hear, hear), He did not wish to say any thing balance of power, that we should allow it. In disrespectful of the Government of Austria, but a short time, new reasons might be urged, and he could not help observing that the minds of Ferdinand might say, that the French troops all men, in all countries, would be much conshould remain in his territories so long as Spain ciliated towards that Government by a relaxawas at war with her South American Colonies tion of its severity. At the present moment (hear, hear); and then they would be able to those harsh measures, which seemed excusable understand that two Swiss regiments were kept a few years ago, were not required, and be at Madrid, and the French troops in the country, trusted that they would be abandoned. Such a in order to allow Spain to send out her own course would tend to augment incalculably the troops to subdue the liberties of South America influence of Austria in Italy. (hear, hear). The present policy of France was most dangerous-it had a tendency to destroy the balance of power in Europe; and what would be our situation, in the event of another war, with Ireland exposed to the iron coast of Spain, guarded, not by Spaniards, of whom, perhaps, we should think less, but by Frenchmen (hear, hear)? He would, therefore, beg leave to ask the rt. hon. gent. whether there was any reason to hope that the French troops would shortly evacuate the Spanish territory? Mr. Canning said, that Ministers had received from the French Government, from time to time, such assurances as satisfied his mind completely that there existed no intention to occupy the fortresses of Spain, after the French army should have been withdrawn. It now appeared that the additional fortifications, about which so much had been said, reduced themselves to common repairs. He was able to assert, most distinctly, that not one sous of French money had been expended upon those fortifications, and not one sous, he was confident, of the money of Spain beyond what was necessary to keep them up. Perhaps it might be satisfactory to state further, that in the month of December, a distinct application had been made to the French Government for a disclosure of its views with regard to Spain. The answer was, South America. THURSDAY, MAY 16.-Mr. Canning laid upon the table a copy of the treaty of amity, commerce, and navigation, between the Kingdom of Great Britain and the United Provinces of the Rio de la Plata, FRIDAY, JULY 1.-Mr. Baring observed, that a person of great distinction, the Envoy from Buenos Ayres to this country, had not yet been presented to his Majesty; he had heard that this circumstance was attributable to the representations of certain European Powers, and that they had also induced the British Government to consent to a limited recognition of some of the independent States of South America, instead of the recognition previously contemplated. He wished to learn what was the fact, and also to be informed, whether it was by accident only that the Envuy from Buenos Ayres had not been introduced at Court? It was but justice to state, that he made this inquiry without any communication whatever with the distinguished individual to whom it related. He wished also to ask another question, referring to a gallant and meritorious portion of the British subjects he meant those officers who had been taken into the service of between his government and himself; but foreign countries. The act which placed these it Was not sufficient as between his goIndividuals in a most extraordinary situation, was vernment and this country. There was still in force. In making this observation, he another point, upon which he desired to say a did not mean to call in question the policy of few words. It happened, that at an earlier the bill to which he had referred; nor would period of the present year, the state of Buenos he inquire whether it had been called for by Ayres had appointed a British subject, a gencircumstances at the time when it was passed. tleman who was a partner in a considerable The law to which he referred imposed a degra- mercantile house in this country, its Consuldation-imposed a severe punishment on persons General for England. In that capacity, the who might contravene its provisions; and yet individual alluded to had called upon him, and, there was not a gent. who heard him, who must tendering his commission, had proposed to not view with the highest respect the conduct of enter with him into the discussion of highly those individuals, and who must not esteem important questions. He had refused to listen them, on account of the noble motives by to that gentleman, and even to see him a which they were actuated. The state of things second time, He had taken that course, in the which had given rise to it having passed away- first place, because the appointment in ques England having recognised the independence of tion had not been regular; but he had felt an. several of the South American states-the law other objection, and one of still greater imshould be altered. Subjects of this country portance. No man was ignorant of the specuhad, in periods of peace, held high commands lations that were taking place in this country in the French service. We had supplied with regard to the continent of South America; admirals to Russia, and officers of various de- and whoever considered what had been the scriptions to Austria, Spain, and Portugal. It fluctuation of various projects within the last was of great importance to the military power year in this country, would probably see that of this country, that English officers should, in he had only taken a proper precaution, when time of peace, be enabled to keep up their he had expressed a desire that the states of military knowledge by entering into the service America, generally, would not appoint British of foreign states. France, at the present mo- merchants in this country to be their consuls. ment, was pursuing this system; she was He had written to his Majesty's Charge d'Afpushing her military officers into every possi- fairs at Buenos Ayres, and to the resident ble service. They were employed in Greece, ministers at other places, requesting, through in Turkey, in every situation where their them, that such nominations might not take abilities were likely to be matured. He sub-place in future. He had, moreover, written to mitted these few observations for the consideration of Government. If nothing were done, he would in the next session submit a motion on this subject. the officers of this country appointed in America, generally, desiring that they would not engage in commercial transactions, under peril of re moval from office. CONSTITUTION. Elective Franchise. MONDAY, JUNE 20.-Lord Nugent presented a petition from the resident burgesses and others of West-Looe, praying inquiry into the right of voting in the borough, and complaining of infringement on the franchises as established by usage immemorial. Usage of this character need not, as he understood, be proved to have been unbroken: it would be enough to show that it had once existed: and he believed that unless a charter provided to the contrary, the common law right of voting was in every householder. Such was the opinion expressed in the time of James I. by Glanville, by Lord Coke, and all the great authorities of the time. The petition he held in his hand stated that, in the charter of West-Looe, there was nothing to abridge the rights of the resident inhabitants, and for centuries the right of election had been exercised by such residents alone TUESDAY, JULY 5.-Mr. Canning rose to answer the questions put on a preceding evening by the member for Taunton. The hon. member (Mr. Baring) had remarked, that an individual of great respectability, accredited to this country by the state of Buenos Ayres, had not been presented at the last levee; and, from that fact, the hon. member inferred that some interference had been used by foreign powers. He (Mr. Canning) desired to say that no attempt had ever been made on the part of any foreign state to regulate, in the slightest degree, the conduct of this country towards any of the states of South America; nor, if such an attempt had been made, could there have been the least chance of its being successful. The fact was that the individual in question, although he appeared in the character of Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary, had no regular credentials. The state of Buenos Ayres had sent this gentleman a paper appointing him Minister Plenipotentiary to this country, and also to France; and that afterwards by usurpation and collusion, be thought that England was not stickling too non-resident burgesses had exercised a right of much upon ceremony in saying that she must voting. Parliament was petitioned on this desire to have an entire minister to herself. ground against the return of a member in 1822, It had been suggested in some quarters, that and a committee of the house declared his these new states might well be placed, in some return illegal; found that the right to elect was points, upon a more free footing than the in the corporators; but did not decide who older ones. In this view, he by no means had a right to be corporators or how they agreed. He thought it sufficient that they should be chosen. The petitioners after this were fully and regularly brought into the com-made many applications to the Court of King's munity of nations: and, as far as his advice went, the same full observance of all forms and arrangements should be required from them as from the oldest, best secured, or most despotic governments existing. The paper which this gentleman produced might be sufficient Bench, and among others an application for a mandamus to be admitted and sworn into the corporation, according to the ancient usage of the borough and the clear meaning of the charter of Elizabeth; but the Court again refused their application, on the ground of want of jurisdiction and the general discussion of ancestors had obtained by a Minister's violatthese subjects which would follow the grant-ing the laws, and the rights of election. The ing of such an application (hear, hear).- Committee to be appointed ought to go into the The noble lord then contended that the peti- whole subject. tion, in effect, made out three things: first, the charter gave the right of voting to the resident house-holders; secondly, that the records proved the returns to have been made by them for a long period, under the titles of burgesses or resiant burgesses, or probi homines or communilas, or some name which, taken with the numbers, showed that there was no difference between the resiant burgesses and the free burgesses. Thirdly, that the right had been abridged by collusion and injustice, and finally altogether usurped by the non-resident burgesses, whose votes were not admissible by the charter. He had several petitions of the same nature to bring up, and early in the next session he pro-ject. posed to bring the whole question forward in a manner suitable to the importance of the occasion. Mr. D. Gilbert thought of all tribunals this house the worst to try such a question. The courts of law were open, and a proceeding was to be brought to a hearing in the Court of King's Bench to-morrow, on the matters recited in that very petition. Mr. Sturges Bourne complained that the Noble Lord had travelled out of the petition before the house, converting a subject of private complaint into a general question of election. If such a Select Committee as the Noble Lord alluded to were to be appointed for any such objects as he contemplated, it would have to settle the question of large properties, without the power of examining any evidence upon oath. The expences of applications to the Court of King's Bench arose out of the neces sity of bringing witnesses to London, and he should like to know how this could be avoided by appointing any committee upon the sub Lord John Russell said, that when a committee was appointed, the expenses of evidence ought to be paid by the public, as was the case in the Grampound Election committee. Mr. Denman wished to give the House one example of the extraordinary manner in which the power of Government could dispose of elections. In the celebrated Westminster election of 1788, a question arose whether the tenants of St. Martin's-le-Grand had a right to vote. The Committee decided in the negative; and Lord John Townshend was declared to be the sitting Member. These tenants petitioned again the next year, and they had then nobody to oppose them, for nobody was immediately concerned, or had any interest at stake in getting rid of these one or two thousand voters. The consequence was, that the rights of the e voters were acknowledged, and they had continued to be undisputed. The Grenville Act might be a good act for deciding disputes between party and party, but the question before the house, was a question of general interest, and ought to be carefully and 'impartially investigated.-The petition was then read. Interested Votes. WEDNESDAY, FEB. 23.-Mr. Byng moved the second reading of the bill for the iron railway in the Isle of Dogs. Lord John Russell said, that, in his opinion, the representative system would not be at all improved, if the rights of voting were extended to all householders. Such an alteration would be merely changing the elections from a select body to persons almost paupers. But the question now to be considered was, whether it was not the duty of that house to give to persons the means of proving their right to vote at elections; for, by the present state of the laws, persons were often deprived of such opportunities. The Court of King's Bench could not be said, in any general sense, to afford to constituents the means of proving their rights to vote. In the last application to the Court of King's Bench on the subject, by the inhabitants of West Looe, one party alone was put to the expence of 1,5001., and he need not say how extremely numerous must be the cases in which individuals could not have the means of establishing their rights by any such expensive applications. He therefore approved of appointing a Committee upon the subject, not for the sake of the petitioners only, but for the sake of the constituent body of England generally. The powers of the Grenville committees were too limited to do justice to the elective body. In the memorable case of the corrupt election for Grampound, a Committee was appointed under the Grenville Act, and it returned that the sitting members had been duly elected; yet, after this, it was proved before a committee of the whole house, that 8,0001. had been paid to secure the returns of those very members. If the present question were in any shape pending, or about to be brought before the Court of King's Bench, it was an application of individuals for personal redress, but before that house it was a question of general rights, and in such matters the House of Commons was alone competent to interfere. Something ought to be done, for the determina-ter of the House of Commons. He had long tions of that house under the Grenville Act, were often the most corrupt determinations, influenced by party motives. How often were the decisions of Committees no more than mere orders that the descendants of some corrupt nominee of Lord Orford, or of Sir Robert Walpole, should inherit the boroughs which their Mr. Grenfell regretted that the hon. member for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume) was not present, as the house must now feel the propriety of acting upon the proposition which his hon. friend had made yesterday, that members interested should retire without voting. He (Mr. G.) was for carrying that principle farther. He would not only have any member prevented from voting on a private bill, whose private interest might lead him to support the bill; he would also exclude all those who had an interest directly opposed to the bill; and if the hon. member (Mr. Hume) would not, he pledg ed himself that at the earliest opportunity he would submit a measure to the house for that purpose. Mr. Brougham observed, that the present subject was one which affected, in no ordinary degree, the interests of the public and the charac been a witness of the reprehensible manner in which private business was conducted, and for that reason had uniformly refused to give his vote, either one way or the other, on any private bill; except in one instance, the Highgate Chapel bill, which, conceiving it to partake of the nature of a public measure, and to be a |