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WEDNESDAY.-9th May.

there is any objection to it, or any probability At an early hour the body of the House was

of a difference of opinion respectingit, I propose crowded with peers, the peeresses' box with that the proceeding upon it be deferred to a ladies, the spaces near the throne and below | more convenient opportunity; for, as I have the bar with members of the House of Coin

already observed, under the circumstances in mons, and the gallery with strangers ; hut it

which we are placed, I trust your Lurdships was put until a quarter past five v'clock that

will concur with me in the propriety of adthe Lord Chancellor took his seat on the journing the consideration of all questions woolsack.

that are likely to produce anything like coaEarl GREY immediately rose, and presented

test. petitious against the existing system of tithes

Lord ELLENBOROUGH intimated the probain Irelaud, from Doncaster, Caloe, Dumfries,

bility that svine debate would arise on the bill Wigion, &c.

inentioned by the noble Earl, so that it might

he expedient to defer the motion for the seRESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.

cond reading. Earl Grey then proceeded to the following Earl Grey said he had no objection to the effect :- And now, my Lords, after the pro- postponement of the second reading ceedings of Monday last, and their result- The order of the day for the second reading after that night's debate and decision, your of the Admiralty and Navy Offices Bill was Lordships are probably prepared for the in-accordingly discharged. formation which I feel it to be my duty trol The Lord CHANCELLOR. My Lords, I hold communicate to you. The result of that debate in my hand a petition from Dewsbury, sigoed and decision certainly reduced me, in con- by abore 3000 persons, who, I am informed, junction with my colleagues, to the altervative are of the most respectable description, in of either immediately withdrawing ourselves favour of parliamentary reform. I also hold from the service of bis Majesty, or of tender- in my hand a petition from the town of Bir. ing to his Majesty our advice to take such mingham, in favour of parliamentary reform. means as appeared to us to be justified by the This petition was arreed to at a meeting which necessity of the case to ensure the success of was beld on the 7th of the present month. A the Reförın Bill; and, in the event of that ad petition proceeding from so large a body of vice pot being received, humbly and respect persons appeared to me to be worthy of your fully to tender our resignation to his Majesty. Lordships' deepest consideration. I have read The last alternative was that whicli, after much the petition attentively, and although it conconsideration, we were induced to adopt. We tains opinions in which some of your Lordoffered to his Majesty the advice which we ships may not concur, it is couched in respectthought it our duty, uuder the circumstances ful language, and I can not Sud iu it any of the times, 10 offer : the alternative was ac- statement upon which its reception can be ubcepted by his Majesty, and he was graciously jected to. This petition is the result of a pleased to accept our resignation; at the same meeting, in numbers unexainpled. I have time honouring us with the fullest approbation been informed by an individual, ou whum 1 of our services during the period that we have cau rely, that in the course of the day been ju his Majesty's councils, during which above 200,000 persons attended that ineetiog. period we have uniformly experienced from his Fur the accuracy of that estimate of course I Majesty a support and confidence for which I cannot myself i ouch ; but I had it from an sball always feel most deeply grateful. My individual of great respectability, of great Lords, these are the circumstances under powers of calculation, and who, I am quite which we now stand. Having teodered to bis confident, is incapable of wilful misrepreseutMajesty our resignations, and those resignaatiou. I will not trouble your Lordships with tions having been accepted, and holding office entering more fully into this subject; but I therefore only until our successors are ap- bey leave to state that I stand in the same pointed, your Lordships will, I am sure, see situation as my noble Friend, having felt it the propriety of our not entering into the cou- my duty most respectfully to tender my resideration of any public business on which it signation to his Majesty, in consequence of is probable a difference of opinion may prevail. his Majesty's having declined the advice which Such being the case, it is uut my intention to we thought it our duty to offer him. In stating propose to morrow that we go ou with the this, however, I must add, that to the latest consideration of the Reform Bill. But there hour of my existence, I shall never cease to is a measure of great importance, the secuud entertain the deepest and niost heartfelt gratireading of which stands for to-night-I mean tudle for the repealed proofs of confidence the bill for the regulation of the Adiniralty and which I have received from his Majesty, aud Navy Offices. It is of great moment that this for the gracious kindness with which iis Ma. bill should pass with as little delay as possible, jesty has always coudescended to treat me. as it has received the sauction of the other As the petition is sigoed vuly by the chairman House of Parliament, and as the time fixed for of the meeting, it can iu point of form be reits coming into operation is the 14th of May. ceived only as the petition of an individual. If, therefore, un material objection exists to that At the suggestion of the Earl of SupFULK, measure, I hope my uoble Friend behind me will the petitiou was read at length by the Clerk. be allowed to proceed with it. If, however, The Earl of SurFOLK : My Lords, I thiok

that petition does great credit to the people; The Earl of CARNARVON : the noble Earl of Birminghain. I congratulate myself op has moved that the order of the day for promoving from this side of the House to that. I ceeding tv-morrow with the consideration of congratulate the country on the change ; for the Reform Bill in cuminittee be discharged. I am persuaded that in opposition my noble My Lords, I do not think that we shall do Friends near me inay be infinitely serviceable. our duty to our Sovereign, left by the extra. Jo opposition they were the instruments of ordinary conduct of the noble Earl and his giving freedom to the Catholics of Ireland colleagues in a most difficult if not a most and to the Dissenters of Eugland. But, above perilous situation, if we permit this order to all, I congratulate the people on the firm but be so contemptuously discharged, and abanpeaceable manuer in which they have showu don the measure now, because we expressed their determination to obtain Parliamentary our wish-a wish which we share with the Reform. By their temperate and conciliatory great majority of intelligent persons of the conduct they have won it from their friends ; country to proceed with it on ihe must libelet them proceed in the same course, and they ral and conciliatory principles (a laugh, and will extört it from their enemies. (Hear, cries of hear, bear!). Because the mode of hear, hear!)

proceeding which your lordships have thought The Earl of PLYMOUTH observed, that at proper tu adort, with respect to the bill, is meetings such as that from which the Bir- not exacily that of which the noble Lords opmingham petitiou proceeded, many persons posite approve: - because the alphabetical attended , not for the purpose of meetiny, but arrangement which the puble Lords opposite influenced solely by curiosity. He denied recommend, your lordships have not thought that there was the intense anxiety among the it proper to follow-because your lordships people, on the subject of reform, which was decline to consider schedules A and B until pretended. He deuied the general respecta- you have cousidered schedules C and D; bility of the Political Uuiuns; at least of such are the ouly grounds on which the noble those of which he had any knowledge. With Lords opposite have proceeded. My Lords, respect to the particular meeting in question, the noble Lords opposite may act as they it would not appear surprising that it was so think fit: we know the grounds, the sliglit numerous when it was known that a district grounds, which their defeat on Monday evenof from fourteen to eighteen miles in circuin- ing afforded them for one of the most atroference had been ransacked to collect an cious propositions with which a subject ever assembly for the occasion; and that in some dared to insult the ears of the Sovereigo. We of the unions it was a rule that any person bave heard, and it was what I naturally exabove twelve years of age was eligible as a pected to hear, that his Majesty, who was memher.

among the first to recommend reform upon The Lord CHANCELLOR did not wish to pro- | broad and constitutional principles, finding long the conversatiou on this subject. He himself reduced to the alternative to which would merely observe, that there could be uo his Ministers ventured to reduce him, has doubt that there might be some men, women, acted as became a Sovereign of the House of and children, who were induced to attend the Brunswick ; and, by so doing, he has esta-, Meeting from motives of curiosity ; but from blished an additional title to the respect and the inforination which he had received, there affection of his subjects. But, my Lords, it could also be no doubt that the great body shall not go forth to the public, because the and hulk of the persons who assembled on that noble Lords opposite, whatever may be the occasion were most anxious for the furtherance motives which have influenced them, have of the objects for which the Meeting was con- determined to abandon the measure, it shall vened. When they were talking of hundreds not go furth to the public that this House is of thousands, it was a matter of little impor. unwilling to enter into the discussiou of its tance if a few hundreds were liable to the ré. merits. This bull must be discussed, unless mark of the Noble Earl. He was happy, the majority of your lordships, which I do however, that the noble Earl had afforded bim not believe, are opposed to that discussion, an opportunity of stating the loyal and peace- If, therefore, the order of the day, for proable demeavour of the great Meeting in ques- ceeding to-morrow with the consideration of tion. In no single instance had there been the the measure, be discharged, I will move inslightest violation of peace or order.

stanter that it stand for Monday wext. Should Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed, that if the it be impracticable to bring the subject for-, order for proceeding with the Reform Bill in ward on so early a day, it may easily be poste

e to-morrow were discharged, ano- poned; whereas, if it be fixed for too late a ther day should be fixed for that proceeding, day, we cannot advance the period of the

Earl Grey said, that he should move to dis discussion. I, therefore, move that your charge the order for to-morrow; but that he lordships proceed with the consideration of saw no necessity for namivg any other day the Reform Bill ia committee on Monday (a laugh).

next. Lord DURHAM presented petitions from Yeol Earl GREY : My Lords, I am too much ac. vil and Perth, in favour of Parliamentary customed to the ill-timed, violent, personal, Reform; and a petition from Durham for the and unparliamentary language of the noble abolition of Negro Slavery.

Earl who has just sat down, to be much af

Com

fected by the most disorderly attack which tion from the numerous evils which result the noble Earl has made upon my colleagues from the existence of the uomination boroughs. and myself. Nor is it for the defence of iny- The proposition made to your Lordships on self personally against the imputations which Monday was, to posipove the consideration of the puble Earl has thought proper to cast that subject to the consideration of another; upon me, tbat I again rise to address your and make depend on that other the disfranLordsbips. I trust, my Lords, that in the chisement which the hill tended first to reestimation of your Lordships and of the public, move. That was a very material change in my character is such, that I may without pre- the character of the measure. But, my Lords, sumption consider myself as sufficiently that is uot all. To what situation was the auguarded from the danger of suffering from thor of the bill placed after the question of such imputations. (Hear, hear, bear.) The Monday evening was carried ? The noble Earl noble Earl has been pleased to qualify the said in that discussion, that he was disposed advice which I thought it my duty respect to grant a considerable Reform; but I did not fully to tender to my Suvereigu, as atrocious hear any other noble Lurd on that side of the and insulting; and there were other noble House say so, except a noble Lord who expresLords on that side of the House who appeared sed his willingness to agree to the whole of the to agree with the noble Earl in that opinion. disfranchisement comprehended in Schedule All i can say is, that I deferred giving that ad. A. But hy whom was the proposition of Monvice until the very last moment; that I did not day evening made ? By a puble and learned give it until the necessity of the case and my Lord, who, in the course of the very speech sense of public duty inposed upon me an obli- which he made on that occasion, stated that gation which appeared to me tu be imperative. he still cousidered the bill to be inconsistent Whether I was right or wrong is a question with the safety of the Government and subverwhich, whenever the noble Lord opposite may sive of the Constitution. What right had we think proper to bring it under discussion be- to suppose that the noble and learned Lord fore your Lordships, I am prepared to argue would support the disfranchising portions of and to defend my conduct in the best way I can. the bill when they came to be considered ? But I appeal to your Lordships and to the And by whom was the noble and learned country, whether, until that period shall ár- Lord's proposition supported ? In the first rive, I am called upon, whatever sinister mu- place, by a noble Duke, who has declared that tives the poble Earl may attribute to me, to the present state of the representation is incanotice the accusation.-[The Earl of Carnar- pable of being amended by human ingenuity von said across the table that he did not im- or wisdom. By whom else was that proposipute sinister mutives to che noble Earl]. The tion supported ? By another poble Duke, who feeling which prompts the noble Earl to make has declared himself hostile to any disfraubis violent addresses to your Lordships, is chisement-by a noble Baron, who expressed such as sumetimes to render him unconscious his hope that, by adopting the proposition of of the language he uses. If, however, the I the noble and learued Lord, their Lordships noble Earl disclaims the expression which I might entirely avoid the necessity of any disquoted, of course I do not wish to insist upon franchisement. My Lords, under these cirthat point. I repeat, that the advice which I cumstances, is it not childish to say that the offered to my Sovereign, when the proper question decided by your Lordships on Muoday time comes I am prepared to defend; and in was merely one of form or precedence (bear, the meanwhile, I throw nyself upon the can hear, hear!)? Jo the circumstances in which dour of your Lordships and of the country, that decision placed me, I had first to see and ask if it be possible that I could bave whether I could obtain the means of insuring been actuated by any other motive than a the success of the measure; and having failed strict sense of duty ? Having as a Minister iu that attempt, I had to consider whether it of the Crown given the advice which I thought would be consistent with my duty to my Sove. it my duty to give, and that advice not having reign and to the public, and with the maintebeen accepted, I had no alternative but most nauce of my own character and honour, to bumbly and respectfully to tender my resig- continue the mere shadow of a Minister, and pation to bis Majesty. The noble Earl says to have the Reform Bill.taken out of my hands, that the grounds on which we proceeded were for the purpose of being cut, carved, mutilaonly trilling; that they were only mere matters teil, and destroyed, just as its opponents might of form; that, in point of fact, it was only if think proper (hear, hear, bear!). My Lords, the discussion of the schedules Cand D should I am conviuced that in the opinion of all your or should not precede the discussion of the Lordships, even of those noble Lords who do schedules A and B. If that was really the not approve of the Reform Bill, the course case, then the noble Earl is rigbt: but that which I have taken will be attributed only tu a was not the case. In the debate on Monday sense of the duty which I owe to my Sovereign evening, I distinctly stated to your Lordships and my country, and a sense of what was due the reasons which rendered it evident to me to that personal honour which, I trust, I have that the question wbich we were discussing never yet forfeited (hear, hear!). I stand be was of the utmost in poslance, and that it was fore the public responsible for my actions. I terially affected the principle of the Bill. The am ready to meet any charge wbich may be principle of the Bill is, to relieve the Constitu- brought against me, and to viodicate my cop•

duct and my motives whenever the proper oc- country (and that bad not bern contradicted), casion may arrive (hear, hear!), 'Oue wurd, be asked if ever, on such slight grounds, a promy Lords, as to what the noble Earl has posal had been made, the teudency of which chosen to call the contemptuous manner in was absolute destruction of that House and which I have moved to discharge the Order the aunihilation of its legislative and politifor to-morrow. It is the usual motion on such cal impurtauce and made in the spirit of occasions. It is not for me to appoint any other that dictation, which, from the beginning to day. Even the noble Earl finds a difficulty in the end of their course, had marked the prodoing so. For myself, I certainly canuot pro- ceedings of the noble Lords opposite ; and ceed with the bill uoder the circumstances which induced them to endeavour to make wbich have occurred. I trust that out of all their Lordships the abject tools of their will ? these unhappy differences, a measure of Re- | The motion which he bad made he had made form may eventually arise, extensive, efficient, to enable every peer to show his couviction aud beneficial (if not extensive and efficient, l (and although there might be some differit will not be beneficial)-a measure which ences of opinion, that he was satisfied was the may be satisfactory to the country, and which general feeling) that, in the present state of may restore the attachment of the people to the country, their Lordships had no choice, the institutions of the State. But it is impossi. but were under the necessity of conceding ble for me to proceed with the measure, sub- some considerable, and as safe as possible, ject to the daily alterations which might be reform. It was highly desirable that this forced upon me by a majority, four-fifths of opportunity should be afforded as soon as which consist of persons who object to all Re possible. He called upon their Lordships, form whatever. To the unjust, the ill-timed, liherefore, not to adjourn the question to any and I will add, the unprovoked attack of trie | distant period. He would, therefore, propose poble Earl, I should, perhaps, not have con- that the order be made for Monday; and if sidered it necessary to make any answer, had on that day a further postponement should be I not been desirous to set set myself right with considered necessary, it might occur. At your Lordships and with the public, with represent, however, he did not see any reason ference to the mutives which have iufluenced I why the subject might not be brought forward me, and the sense of duty under which I have on Mouday. acted (bear, hear!). .

The motion, that the House would on MonThe Earl of CARNARVON disclaimed any day proceed with the consideration of the Reintention of imputing to the noble Earl a furm Bill in committee, was then agreed to, contemptuous feeling, or of charging biin with sinister motives. He had certainly conceived that the alternative to which the noble Earl ' HOUSE OF COMMONS. had originally alluded was the making of such a number of peers as would have degraded

9th May, 1832. that House. But he never meant to impute to Lord AlthOnP entered the House before bim that he recommeoded so treinendous a five o'clock, and was received with cheers from proceeding merely to escape the mortification the treasury benches. He rose shortly alter, of being occasionally outvuted in that House. I and said it was his duty to state to the House, When he said that it was the most atrocious ad. that in consequence of what took place in an. vice that a Miuister ever gave to bis Sovereiyo, other place on Monday last, it appeared quite he said it in perfect good temper; if warnily, it impossible to his Majesty's Goveruinient to hope was because as a member of that House he that they could carry the Reform Billin such a felt warmly on the subject. If such atrocivus manuer as they thought cousistent with their counsel as that be alluded to were not given duty, or without such alterations as would to his Majesty, but some other alternative, render it so inefficient, that, according to the the nature of which he was at a loss tu con. pledges they had given, they could not carry ceive, he begged, pardon for baving used the it forward. Under these circumstances they expression. After the attack which had been had only the alternative to tender their resig. made upon him by the uoble Earl (a laugb), nations, or to advise bis Majesty to take such he must he allowed

measures as would enable them to carry it as Lord Dover spoke to order. The noble it ought to be carried ; and if bis Majesty did Earl оugbt to confine himself to explanation. not accede to their request, to tender him

The Earl of CARNARVON observed, in con- their resiguations. They adopted the latter tipuation, that having made a motion of no course. The result had been that they small importauce, he was entitled to reply tendered their resignations, which his even at much greater length. The noble Majesty was graciously pleased to accept. Earl had said that he (Lord Carparvon) was, Cuissequently they now only held office perhaps, in a state of irritation, whicb, per until their successors should be appointhaps, precluded him from being conscious of ed. It was impossible for him, howthe lauguage which he used. He could as. ever, to leave office without expressing for sure the voble Earl and their Lordships that biniself, as he believed he might for all bis he spoke not in auger but in dismay. If he colleagues, his and their sense of the kindwas not wrong in supposing that sucis advice ness aud condescensiun with which they had as had beeu alluded to had been given to the been uuiformly treated, siuce they beld office, by his Majesty. For himself he could say, 'ascertained. It was essential to the wellthat the mode in which his Majesty had being of the country that it should be usealways treated him, and the condescension quivocally and firmly expressed. He hoped, he had invariably displayed towards bim, was however, that the noble Lord would reconsuch as to ensure his gratitude as long as he sider the call of the House. It could not be lived. He had vow stated all it was neces- effectual, as notice could not be given to the sary for him to state, and would move that Members absent from town. the order of the day for the second reading of! Mr. LABOUCHERE entreated the noble Lord' the Scotch Reforni Bill be read, for the pur. to persevere in his motion. If the House now pose of proposing its postponement.

shruuk from their duty, 'he, for one, feared Lord EBRINGTON, alter expressing his regret that the greatest calamities must follow.” If (as we imagine) that a measure which had the House did what the country had a right been sanctioned by so great a majority of that to expect from it, the country would receive House was defeated in another place, pro- with sorrow, but in a peaceful manner, the ceeded to say, that under the circumstances, intelligence which would be communicated to he felt it his duty to propose a motion to it; but if the House did not, as was its duty, morrow, of wbich' he would uow give notice. place itself in the front of the battle-if they To-morrow he would more an humble ad- were sucł cravens as to allow a Government dress of that House to his Majesty on the which had honourably redeemed its pledges present state of public affairs (cheers), and to be driven from their seats by a vote of ihe although he supposed that every Gentleman, other flouse, he, for one, should have most whatever might be bis opinion, would atteud melancholy anticipations. (Hear, bear.) He on the occasion, he would move that this could not avoid contemplating scenes at which House be called over to-morrow.

every man must shudder. Mr. G. LANGTON was of opinion, that no-1 Mr. O'Connell thought the Government thing short of the present measure of reform bad acted well and wisely in resigoiug. His would satisfy the people.

hon. Friepd (Hume) had talked of the hopes Mr. Hume observed, that he was bound in of the people of Eugland being frustrated. justice to say, that the noble Lord and his col. That, he believed, was impossible. All Eng. leagues bad, as Ministers, pow no other course land had spoken, and had sent a great ma. to follow. He did state that, in his opinion, jority of reformers to Parliament for all open they had done honour to themselves; and pot places. The only question was, would they in his opinion only, but in that of the whole be firm to themselves, or would they shriuk country. He had extremely to regret, that from the contest with a sordid oligarchy? If the just expectations of a uuited people, car- the people of England were true to themselves, ried on from day to day, and so loug, unfor. and insisted ou reform, they must bave it. tunately, kept iu suspense, were now likely to The people of Scotland, he knew, did manfully picet with complete frustration. As a true insist on 'refor:n, and when they had so come reformer, aud a lover of bis country, he could forward, they never yet had failed. They had not but regret to see that the cause of reform won the toleration creed they loved by their had been interrupted. He had hoped that the good broad swords, aud uow, without them, noble Earl would have been enabled, by the and by constitutional means, he had no doubt same support and countevance where with he they would win reform. For Ireland, he could had introduced the measure, to briog it to a merely say, that the universal people would prosperous conclusion. (Hear, hear.) For not shrink from their share of the contest. himself, he waited with impatience for the He hoped the noble Lord would persevere, motion of the noble Loral (Ebrington) to and he trusted no member would absent himmorrow; and he trusted that, to refuse that self to-morrow. He hoped no man who had motiou, every man would adopt that course fattered the people with his 'vote on reform the purity of that body. For his own part, would now shrink from his duty in coming which the interests of the country, the diguity forward. Iudeed, he had too great coufiof that House, and the public peace required. dence in the majority of that House to

Lord ALTHORP said, that it appeared to | suppose that it contained a skulker or a him, that in the present crisis of the country, recreant. Let all then attend, and let them and in the present state of public affairs, any | firmly and respectfully send forth an admeasure that might throw impediments in the dress to the Throne, which would inform way of the new Admiuistration ought to be his Majesty that the truly loyal and those cautiously avoided (Hear, bear, hear), and most attached to the succession of the House would be exceedingly impolitic. (Hear, hear, of Brunswick were the most determined that hear.) Therefore he should much wish that the rights of the people should be restored. his noble Friend had postponed any appeal to Mr. James put a question, which was unthe opinion of the House, until the new Ad. (derstood to be a request to know whether the ministration was formed. (Cheers.)

noble Lord would communicate to the House Sir J. NEWPORT differed with his poble the cause of ihat resignation which be bad Friend; he hoped the noble Lord (Ebrington) just announced. would not witbdraw his motion, (Ilear, bear.) T Lord ALTHORP said that he did not know It was well, in times like these, that the opi. that he was at liberty to state more at preuion of the majority of the House should be sent, than that his colleagues and hiuself bad

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