not remain silent, but must be allowed to assert, that the Duke of Wellington is ineapable of doing anything in private or public that can subject him to the charge of being guilty of an act of public immorality. (Cheers from the left side.)

ask, that will be produced by such a change? for of that I am ignorant. I know nothing of I know not; but I trust that whatever may such a proceeding being about to take place. happen, the people of the whole country will I say I have not accepted office from his Mahave the opportunity of expressing their opi-jesty-I am not aware of the details which are nions firmly and decided, but, at the same going forward; but when I hear the noble time, I hope that they will express them mo- Lord opposite state what he has done, I canderately and temperately, that they will bear in mind that the worst blow that can be given to the Reform Bill, the greatest injury that can be inflicted on the cause of reform, would be the consequence of any attempt to carry the measure by any means but those which are strictly constitutional. (Hear, hear.) I beg to apologise to the House for the length at which I have troubled them; and again I implore any gentleman who may be acquainted with the matter, to satisfy us on the point to which I have alluded. (The uoble Lord sat down amidst much cheering.)

Lord MILTON-The House, Sir, must have heard with great satisfaction from the gallant officer opposite, that the Duke of Wellington is incapable of an act of public immorality (cheers); because the gallant officer is a person who, more than any other individual, is capable of forming an opinion on the conduct which the noble Duke will most probably pursue. (Hear.) But he has made some little mistake in the answer he has given to the observations of my noble Friend, for he has assuined that my noble Friend has accused the Duke of Wellington of an act of public immo. rality. (Hear, hear.) He did no such thing, What he stated was, that if the Duke of Wel

Sir H. HARDINGE-I should be the last person to intrude myself upon the notice of the House, if I thought I should be injuring the interests of the Duke of Wellington, but I stand here in that situation that enables me, without impropriety, to make a few observations in answer to the noble Lord. I have received no proposal from his Majesty to take office, and therefore, when the Duke of Wellington, having been the author of that protest lington is spoken of as guilty of a want of which has found its way upon the Journals of public morality (a solemn hear, hear, from the House of Lords, is at the same time the the left of the Speaker, answered by loud and author of a bill which he had already described continued cheering on the other side), I, as a as revolutionary, and which the gallant Genefriend of the Duke of Wellington, feel called ral still describes as revolutionary; if, I say, upon to state, that there is no act of his life the Duke of Wellington, having been the that justifies any hon. Member in applying to author of that protest, did form an Adminis him that imputation. (Cheering and counter tration on the principle of passing that bill, cheering.) The use of such terms and such that then the Duke of Wellington will have expressions has alone caused me, humble as been guilty of an act of public immorality. I am, to rise and protest against them, not in (Loud cheering.) On the question put by my anger or irritation, but because I think they noble Friend, as connected with the subject of are not justified. If his Majesty is, in couse- this petition, the gallant Officer has given no quence of the advice tendered to him by his answer. I trust, however, that before the oblate Ministers, in that predicament that he servations which have arisen on this petition has been obliged to call on the Duke of Wel-shall have passed away, that some other perlington for advice, I am persuaded that the son, who, though not equally in the confi conduct of the Duke of Wellington will be, as dence of the Duke of Wellington with the it always has been, that of a loyal and devoted gallant Officer, will yet be able to make some subject. (Cheers from the left of the Speaker.) communication to this House that shall satisWith regard to any consistency or inconsist-fy the public that the imputation on the conency on the part of the Duke of Wellington, I duct of the Duke of Wellington will not am aware that he has expressed in strong arise, and that if his Grace does accept office, terms his opposition to the bill, and that he he will do it untainted with such conduct, has entered a protest against it. I have my which, if adopted, would most certainly be an self, in this House, used expressions equally act of public immorality. (Cheers.) The gal strong in declaring my opinion of the danger-lant Officer says that the conduct of the Duke ous consequences of that revolutionary mea- of Wellington will be that of a loyal and desure. I still retain those sentiments, that the voted subject. I hope by that expression that bill is a dangerous and revolutionary measure, he means nothing but that his Grace will show and that it will be so still if it be only a little loyalty and devotion to the interests of the mitigated, while its essential qualities are re- country, and not to the caprice of any man. tained; and if enfranchisement and disfran- (Cheers.) If the gallant Officer means by chisement, and a larger constituency-if such that that there stands in these realms any hu a bill can be brought down to this House, and man beiug before whom loyalty and devotion shall give those essential requisites which this could call on any man to sacrifice his frequent. House and the country will expect, it will notly declared aud solemnly recorded opinions, be for me to state who will bring down that the gallant Officer must entertain an opinion bill, or whether it will be passed through the inconsistent with the safety and well-being House of Lords by the Duke of Wellington, of the country-an opinion that will put an

end to the responsibility of Ministers, and other, as a faithless person. (Cries of No, no, by so doing will endanger the Monarchy it- aud cheers reiterated.) The King was put self, which it has always been the policy of forward as the advocate of a great measure, the constitution to guard by relieving the which was received with great favour by the chief magistrate from all responsibility, and great mass of the people; and now it is asthrowing that responsibility on the Ministers. serted that he has turned round to disappoint (Hear, hear, hear.) I am sure, Sir, that it them. (Much cheering.) I do not say that could not be the gallant Officer's meaning, this has been imputed by the two noble Lords; when he used those words, that devotion and but the language has been held at public loyalty were compatible with a dereliction of meetings. (Cheers and laughter, and cries of principles so distinctly, frequently, and so-"No.") I trust honourable Gentlemen will lemnly recorded (loud cheering), or that true give me leave to speak; and if they will so devotion and loyalty could exist in connexion far conform to the rules of debate, I shall be with that conduct which my noble Friend has most happy to listen to them in return. I asdescribed; and which, if the Duke of Wel-sert that no person can have read all the libels lington were guilty of it, would justly render that have been published from one end of him liable to the accusation of having acted kingdom to the other, without seeing that inconsistently with public morality. such is the sum and substance of the accusation against the Crown. It was very properly stated by the honourable Member for Preston, the other night, that although here and elsewhere there may be a great many persons auxions about the state of parties and individuals, the question with the country is, what is to become of the great measure of reform? At least it is for the country to wait, and I hope it will wait without being agitated and excited by any observations, but especially by such as are made here. (Much cheering and confusion.) The country will be disposed to

Sir. H. HARDINGE was understood to say that the inference drawn by the noble Lord was unfair, and that he should not have risen but for the observations of the noble Member for Devonshire.

Mr. BARING began by some observation, not distinctly heard, on the manner in which he viewed the question; he then proceeded as follows:-It is not to be denied that the country stands at present on the brink of a great crisis, but I rise simply to call the calm attention of the House (if, at such a time, and on such a subject, it can give me its calm at-wait to see whether, in fact, the King has so tention) to the position in which we are placed. broken faith (cheers); because I adinit, whatI do not attribute to hon. Members their ea- ever may be the opinions of others, or of the gerness or anxiety as a fault, but in proportion humble individual now addressing the House, to the importance of the topics which engage that the Crown has undoubtedly given a pledge us is the necessity to give a calm considera- to the country of an extensive measure of retion to the posture in which we staud. I say form, (bear, hear,) and no person could apthis, too, notwithstanding the sneer of the proach his Majesty with the advice, by forfeithon. Gentleman opposite (we believe Mr. T. ing that pledge, to sacrifice his own character Duncombe); and the question really is, whe- and to sacrifice the Monarchy of the country. ther that posture has been the fault of his Ma- (Great confusion on all sides, and much jesty or the Ministers ? In perhaps more cheering from the right of the Speaker.) I constitutional language, I may inquire, has repeat, that no man could advise the King dewhat has occurred been produced by the liberately to break faith with his people. No King's fault, or by the fault of some phantom man could approach the throne, under existadviser who had operated upon the Royal mind? ing circumstances, with any other than this (Cheers.) All I wish is, that honourable Gen-language:-"My own opinion is, that the tlemen should consider whether it is generous Reform Bill will not promote the good of the towards the Crown, whether it is common country; the constitution to arise out of it fairness towards the Crown, to irritate the will not be so beneficial as that we are about public mind from one end of the kingdom to to abandon; but dangers may arise-an the other, before the Crown is in a condition emergency may occur circumstances may to make an answer. (Hear, hear.) Although present themselves requiring this concession. I venture to address the House on behalf of (Cheers and laughter.) After what has prothe Crown. I beg to say that I am not empower-ceeded from the Crown, nobody, whatever ed by the Crown. I have not had the honour to meet his Majesty; but I am entitled, like others, to state what I think is due, from a mere sense of justice. The good sense of Ministers has, it is true, led them to abstain from any reflections; but I put it to their more immediate friends, viz. the two noble Lords who have addressed the House, whether it is not consistent with honour, good faith, and common decency (much cheering), to wait at least until the King has the means of being constitutionally heard, before he is bandied, from one end of the kingdom to the

might be their private views, could give advice different from that, and the case must be governed by the peculiar difficulties attending it. I know not what the sentiments of the Monarch may be, but only such advice could for a moment be listened to: the determination once taken to grant reform-the pledge for that purpose once given, it must be substantially redeemed and made good. (Cheers.) At the same time, let not the House suppose that I am implicating any other, or that I am detailing anything that actually passed between his Majesty and others, I speak inerely my own

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opinion-I have no right to speak for others; out-that although I have voted and spoken and the Duke of Wellington is perfectly com- against the general principle of the bill, and petent to explain and justify his own conduct, although I still maintain those opinions, yet (Cheers and laughter.) With my right ho- for no sinister purpose. I did (as the hon.. nourable and gallant Friend near me (Sir H. Member for Midhurst and others may rememHardinge), I am confident that the great ber) at a public meeting at the London Tavern, mass of the people will feel that, after the state, that however objectionable, there was great services of that distinguished individual, such a feeling in the country in favour of the it is not upon light grounds that confidence bill that there would be no permanent_peace should be refused. (Cheers.) Such being until the measure was conceded. (Hear, hear.) the case, I come to the question-Has this I used that expression twelve months ago— Ministry been broken up because the King not in a corner, but at a public meeting, and has turned short round and refused to make of course without reference to what has now the Reform Bill law?-I deny it. The situa-occurred. I have mentioned it in order to tion is undoubtedly very serious and lament- show that a man may be perfectly justified in able, but the Crown must be advised in some adopting a measure he does not approve for way by somebody. (Continued laughter.) the purpose of averting dangers of a worse and The Ministers retire-they refuse to perform more threatening description. This may be their duties and I admit that to recommend called public immorality; but I admit that I the King not to pass a Reform Bill would be was guilty of it, and at a public meeting advice of a most pernicious kind, and the in- twelve months ago. Whether this may also dividual who gave it would be justly exposed be the opinion of the Duke of Wellington I to the reprobation both of the House and the know not, and I have no authority to state; country. (Cheers.) As far as I can under- but when it is imputed as an act of immostand (and my information is little beyond rality, I feel bound to take my share of it; that of any other honourable Member, being and for one I contend that, instead of being mainly derived from what the noble Lord had immoral, it is an honest and defensible prosaid on a former occasion), the Administra- ceeding. I repeat that we ought to wait until tion was broken up on this simple ground- the Crown has the means of explaining to the that the King had to deal not only with the House and to the country what were the reaHouse of Commons but with the House of sons which induced it to reject the advice of Lords; and in reference to the latter, he was its Ministers, in consequence of which they required to establish a most dangerous and refused longer to continue in its service. When atrocious principle. (Cheers and confusion.) the time comes the country will hear and That principle being, that every time the two judge; and however well disposed, as I am Houses of Parliament differ on a question of myself, to give right hon. Gentlemen opposite legislation, the Minister of the Crown is enti-credit for the best intentions, it will then also tled to force the House of Lords by sending an respect the scruples of the Monarch in followimmense number of peers into it; on the re-ing advice of a description which an honest fusal of the King to accord in this plan, the English king might justly hesitate to adopt. Ministers may throw up their commissions in (Cheers.) his face, and the country is to be told, because his Majesty has conscientious scruples in so dealing with a branch of the legislature, that he is false and perfidious. (Cheers from all sides.) As far as my information goes, that is a fair view of the case; but I do not pretend even to say that my intelligence is correct, and still less do I call upon the House to pronounce any opinion. All this House and the country is expected to do is, to wait until the Crown is in a condition to tell its own story to allow that justice to the King which every criminal has a right to when placed at the bar for trial. (Hear, hear.) Whatever may be the feelings of the House, or whatever may be the popularity of the question out of doors, I think that the good sense of the country will revolt against any other mode of dealing with its Sovereign. (Cheers.) Angry speeches and angry proceedings are at least ill-timed until the Crown has the means of stating its own case. I have no intention of going farther into the subject: I merely state what is my impression, and I have no wish to enter into the particular merits of this or of any other Reform Bill; but this I will say in reference to the charge of immorality so freely dealt

Lord ALTHORP-I do not rise for the purpose of entering at all at large into this discussion; but the hon. Gentleman has attributed to my noble Friends sentiments and opinions which were neither uttered by them, nor, to my knowledge, uttered by any Member of the House. (Much cheering.) I did not hear any. body make the sort of observations regarding his Majesty attributed by the hon. Gentleman; and he calls upon the House to suspend its judgment until his Majesty's constitutional advisers are in a condition to explain. I hope and trust that the House will do so, and that it will not run away with any mistaken feeling regarding his Majesty's conduct, where it was possible to give it a fair interpretation. What my noble Friends alluded to was-not the conduct of his Majesty-they alluded to what might have been the conduct-I say, what might have been the conduct of any individuals who, having opposed the Reform Bill in its principle and in its details, were nevertheless ready to accept office with a view to carry the very measure they had so strenuously resisted. (Loud and long cheering.) To that state of things their observations applied; that was the public immorality to which they

we now find that that Administration is about to adopt the very bill which it denounced only a few hours ago as revolutionary. (Cheers and laughter.) I cannot say that the measure has fallen into hands more worthy of it, or more worthy of the task of passing it. I do not deny the noble Lord's learning or talents, but his whole life has been one scene of political

alluded; and I cannot think that the expres- | which it emanated. (Cheers.) We are now to sious they used were stronger than were understand that the Administration has been merited by the occasion. (Cheers from all formed, and as the bill is to be taken into sides.) With respect to the Reform Bill, what- consideration on Thursday, I suppose that the ever may be my feelings with regard to such next we shall bear will be that public princia line of conduct, I may truly say that I have ples, like public meetings, are a farce." heard with considerable gratification the hon. (Cheers and laughter in all quarters.) If the Member admit, in the strong terms in which Duke of Wellington did not mean to pursue he did admit it, first, that the general feeling the Reform Bill, instead of postponing it until of the country is in favour of the measure Thursday, the motion would have been to dis(hear, hear); and, secondly, however I may charge the order for taking it into consideradiffer from him in the inference he draws from tion. Where he has found Ministers to fill the circumstance, that a large measure of re-his Cabinet, I know not; but we all know who form is necessary to the peace and welfare of was the noble and learned Individual first emthe kingdom. I rejoice that an hon. Gentle-ployed to compound the Administration, and man of his influence should at length have arrived at that conclusion; and although it may not be our lot to be the Ministers who carry the Reform Bill, we shall have the satisfaction of knowing, by the consent of all parties, that we have done a public service in introducing it. (Very vehement cheering, especially from the right of the chair.) By our exertions a Reform Bill-and a large Re-prostitution and apostacy. Again I say of what form Bill-will have been adopted. (Cheers.) materials the Administration will be formed it The hon. Gentleman says, and says most truly, is impossible yet to guess; but if it is to be at least from hearsay I can confirm him, that composed of the opponents of the Reform Bill, many months ago he was of opinion it would their principles must be, like certain vehicles be necessary to grant a measure of reform. I set upon crane-necked carriages, the advanknow also, that although he was of that opi- tage of which is, that they turn round in the nion, undoubtedy in this house he did not ex-smallest possible space. (Laughter from all press it. (Much cheering.) I saw none of the effects of that conviction either in the hon. Gentleman's votes or speeches. (Cheers and laughter.) Nevertheless I am glad to hear, that although he always spoke against the Reform Bill, he always wished it well, and that however he might denounce it, he did not really think it unjust, revolutionary, or inconsistent with good government. (Hear, hear.) He tells us, indeed, that he still thinks it will not be an improvement-but what he says regarding his future intentions is, undoubtedly, a great improvement. (Cheers and laughter on all sides.) We may hope, therefore, as he has begun improving, that he will go on in the same course, and that, ere long, we shall see our Reform Bill carried to the great satisfaction of the people, and, as we think, to the amelioration of the constitution. (Cheers from all sides.)

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE-Within these few minutes, I have heard that a declaration has been just made in another place, by Lord Carnarvon, that the new Administration is for accepting some of the minor parts of the Reform Bill, and that it has been postponed until Thursday, in order that it may then be taken into consideration by the other House of Parliament. (Cheers and loud laughter.) We know that the Duke of Wellington was appointed on Saturday last. We know also what was his first act. His first act was to insult the people of Birmingham. (Confusion, and mingled cheers, and cries of "No, no.") He sent back their petition, and refused to lay it at the foot of the Throne, on the idle pretext that he knew of no such body as that from

sides.) In such a vehicle must the Duke of Wellington go down to the House of Lords. (Laughter.) What will be the beasts that draw him-who the charioteer that drives him, or who the pensioned lacquies that stand be hind him, I know not (much cheering); but this I know, that, under such circumstances, I would rather be the tailor that turns his coat than the Duke of Wellington with all his glories. (Much cheering.) But if the temporal Lords have no consciences to be consulted, what is to become of the spiritual Peers? Are the bishops to be hung upon crane-necked carriages too? Are they of a sudden to fling up their mitres and halloo for the bill, the whole bill, and nothing but the bill?" (Reiterated cheers and bursts of laughter.) One of these right rev. Prelates made a most solemn appeal to the House upon the subject, and as it has since been published from authority in the shape of a pamphlet, I may be excused for quoting a passage from it: it was a speech delivered on the question, that the Reform Bill be read a second time. "My Lords (said the Bishop) but one thing is right and one thing only-to walk uprightly; that is in your own power. As for the consequences, they are in the power of God. Will you distrust that power? My Lords, you will not." I say to the House of Peers- My Lords, you will distrust that power, unless the Duke of Wellington and place are your God." (Vehement cheers.) The hou. Member for Thetford has talked about the creation of Peers-forsooth that it would degrade the House of Lords; but this base violation of public principle-this base violation of public protest, will do more to

might speak the sense of the people? (Continued cheers.) It has been said that we have connected the King's name with reform. Let me ask the hon. Member for Thetford this : Will dissolving the Parliament separate the King's name from reform? (Cheers) Will

degrade the House of Lords than the creation of a hundred Peers. (Cheers for some minutes, during which the hon. Member sat down.) Sir H. HARDINGE rose. Before he noticed the harshness of the expressions of the hou. Member for Hertford, he wished to know whether he meant to say that the Duke of Wel-dissolving the Parliament separate the names lington has-(cries of "Order, and spoke.") The SPEAKER remarked that he did not cousider it a question of order, nor did be require to be made alive to points of order when they occurred.

Sir H. HARDINGE was again about to speak, but he was again interrupted by the impatience of the House.

Lord MILTON said it appeared to him that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman was himself out of order in the interruption he had occasioned.

Sir H. HARDINGE again rose; but the disturbance was so great that he could not be heard, and after standing for a few moments he resumed his seat.

of other members of the royal family from reform? (Cheers.) I will give the House the titles of some of those members-the illustrious Cumberland and the sapient Gloucester. (Many cheers from all parts of the House, mixed with cries of "order.")

Sir H. HARDINGE rose.

The SPEAKER called the hon. Member to order. It was irregular to mention any names, and not less those of the royal dukes.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE apologised. If the new Ministry should venture (he added) to dissolve this Parliament, they may depend upon it they will not better their situation, and the inevitable result will be their defeat, disgrace, and dishonour. You may reject the petitions Mr. T. DUNCOMBE proceeded. I repeat of Political Unions, but it will be in vain: the that if the House of Lords be guilty of the base people will and ought to be heard. On Satur violation of public principle and recorded pro-day I heard that the petition of the Birmingtest, it will do more to lower them in the esti-ham Union had been sent back. I have never mation of the people of Eugland than the yet belonged to any of those bodies; but the creation of a hundred peers. I agree also with moment I heard that fact 1 eurolled my name. the right rev. Prelate I have already quoted (Cheers) You may talk as you please about in another sentiment contained in his speech putting down Political Unions. I should like where he says of the Lords, and let that House to see the question tried whether Political look to it:-My Lords, if this House shall Unions can be put down. I maintain that ever fall from its palmy state, it will fall by you cannot put them down but by granting corruption from within. (Cheers.) It will reform. A Political Union is quite as legal fall by folly or by guilt-by the cowardice or and constitutional a body as that political treachery of some-if there shall be any such union known by the name of the Cumberland -of its own degenerate members. (Cheers.) or Conservative Club. (Repeated cheers.) I I say that they cannot be so degenerate; I do shall trouble the House at present no farther; not believe that there are any such; that they but in sitting down I think it right to say that will not so grossly violate the pledges they I shall oppose and defeat the new Administrahave given in the face of God and their country. tion by all the means the forms of this House But we are told, by the hon. Member for allow. Out of doors I shall adopt every posThetford, that the Duke of Wellington has, at sible constitutional measure to resist and emlast, heard the imperious call of the people for barrass them--by agitation, if you like to call reform; that the voices raised at those it so, or in any other way, until I see those "farces"-public meetings-have at length who have been the prime movers of this base reached him; and that the Duke of Welling-outrage upon the nation's feelings burled from ton means to give us reform. Reform from the Duke of Wellington! Reform from the Tories! We are to be taught reform by these -honourable and right honourable apostates! The people are to learn the value of reform, as Dean Swift tells us the ancients learnt how to prune their vines; they found that when asses had browsed upon them, they throve more vigorously, and produced better fruit; so in this case, because. the Tories have at last nibbled at reform, it is to thrive more vigorously and to produce better fruit. (Loud cheers and laughter.) I say that what comes from so polluted a source must be corrupt, and that we ought never to distrust the Tories more than when they affect to be liberal.called upon the House of Commons to stand (Cheers.) But if this Administration be formed, what, I want to know, are they to do with this House? Will they dissolve the Parliament which the King called in order that it

their lofty station and biting the very dust of reform, amid the curses of an insulted people and the execration of au indignant Parliament. (Immense cheering.).

Mr. BEAUMONT was not very distinctly heard, as the House was far from tranquil while he was speaking. He referred to the recorded protest of the Duke of Wellington, and remarked, that if a tree were to be known by its fruits, little reliance could be placed upon the disposition of the author of that protest in favour of reform. He also noticed the surrounding of the metropolis by military, and the rejection of the Birmingham petition, as the first acts of the new Government, and

forward as the conservative body of the state. It was his most anxious desire to remove the enemies of the people from the councils of the King, and he threatened to do every thing that