day move for a committee to consider so much of the said acts as concerned the granting of bounty-money for ships of the enemy taken or destroyed.

A message was received from the lords, stating that their lordships had agreed to the Tortola free port bill.

Mr. W. Smith presented a petition from the Albion Insurance Company against the Globe Insurance Corporation bill.-Ordered to lie on the table till the second reading.

INDIA.

Mr. Paull said he held in his hand a document which he conceived to be of material importance, being an authentic copy of an overland dispatch from India, containing a copy of a treaty of peace concluded between Holkar and Sir George Barlow. It was his wish to know if it was the intention of ministers to make any communication to the House as to the situation of matters in that country. He said that at this moment there was no government in that country. Sir G. Barlow was not governor general, and there was no council. It was just in such a state as Ireland might be supposed to be if the French were to land, or if there was a rebellion in the country, while no Lord Lieutenant had been sent from this country.

The honourable gentleman was proceeding, when he was called to order by the Speaker, who asked if he had any motion to make?

Mr. Paull said he had to move that Major General Win. St. Leger, late of the 27th dragoons, do attend the committee the next day, to give evidence in the Oude charge. He had only taken the opportunity of being on his feet to allude to the other subject, which he conceived to be so important.

The Speaker before putting the question begged leave to remind the honourable gentleman that it was contrary to the usage of that House to mix one subject with another.

Mr. Creevey said, all that he thought himself at liberty to answer to what had fallen from the honourable gentleman was, that government had that morning received a dispatch such as he had alluded to.

The question on Mr. Paull's motion was then agreed to. Mr. Paull again repeated what he had said as to the state VOL. III.

$ s

of

of India, and intimated, that if ministers did not in the course of next week submit something on the subject to the consideration of the House, he should feel himself bound to do so, however inadequate he might be to the task.

Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the committee on the Newfoundland fishery, which was agreed to, and a bill ordered accordingly.

GLOBE INSURANCE CORPORATION BILL.

Sir Theophilus Metcalfe moved the second reading of this bill.

Lord Castlereagh wished to know from the noble lord opposite, if it was his intention to press the important public business for that night after the discussion on the present hill, on which, he understood, counsel were in attendance.

Lord Henry Petty said, if the discussion on this bill should extend to great length, he did not suppose his right honourable friend (Mr. Windham) would be disposed to press the subject alluded to at an unseasonable hour.

The question being then put, that the bill be now read a second time,

Sir J. Anderson moved as an amendment, that the bill be read a second time this day three months, grounding his objection to the bill on the allegation that it was unnecessary, and would greatly injure other insurance offices, as going to extend a monopoly.

Mr. Alderman Combe thought the bill sufficiently warranted by the increase of property, since the only two chartered insurance companies were made corporate bodies, and by the propriety of creating a competition in the market.

Sir W. Curtis opposed the bill, on the grounds stated by Sir J. Anderson.

Lord Henry Petty said there was by no means any mo nopoly here granted, and whilst no injustice was done to any single individual, or to any other company, an advantageous bargain had been concluded for the public, by which the company impressed one million in the funds, and paid 100,0001, to government. This also assured the public of a known capital and known security.

Mr. Grenfel opposed the bill.

Mr. Perceval had no objection to the bill being read a

second

second time, reserving to himself still to object to its prin-. ciple.

Sir C. Price also opposed the bill, as depriving those insured with the company of the security they now had in the private fortunes of the individual partners.

Mr. Paull stated that, from the want of a competition of chartered companies, which were preferred abroad, upwards of 7,000,0001. yearly of East India insurance was done in foreign countries.

After a few words farther from Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Sir W. Young, and Mr. W. Smith, the House divided, For the second reading

Against it

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Whilst strangers were excluded there was a second division upon the question that counsel be called in. This was lost by 62 to 39.

The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed.

Mr Paul! moved the production of a letter from the Persian secretary to the governor general, dated the 22d of June, 1802, directed to the nabob vizier.-Ordered.

The slave trade restriction bill was referred to commit. tee of the whole house in which the blanks were filled up. Fifty pounds was fixed as the amount of the penalty for every slave carried in any manner contrary to the act. Ꭺ clause was added containing the duration of the act till two years after the expiration of the present session.

The House resumed, and the report was ordered to be received the next day.

TRAINING BILL.

The order for the farther consideration of the report of this bill being read, Mr. Windham moved that it should be recommitted, and upon the motion for the chairman to leave the chair,

Lord Castlereagh expressed a wish to know from the right honourable secretary, before the House entered into the discussion, whether the intention was, as rumour stated, that this bill should lie by a dead-letter, to be called into action when ministers thought fit-bat not to be immediately carried into execution?

Mr. Windham said, that it was the first time he heard that any doubt existed of the purpose of ministers to carry the bill into execution as soon as it should pass into a law.

Colonel Bagwell rose for the purpose of opposing the bill. He was willing to do justice to the purity of the intentions of the right honourable gentleman; but he would contend, that he had been most unfortunate in the application of the means which the country had placed in his hands and those of his colleagues. Every measure he had proposed, so far from increasing our force, had an opposite tendency. One of the first of his measures was to get rid of an act which produced annually 18,000 men in the ármy; and for what?-for an experiment. The plan introduced appeared to him to be principally for the purpose of counteracting the excellent system laid down by the former government, and to manifest his adherence to opinions expressed, he would not say in a moment of factious, but certainly of pointed opposition. With respect to the constitutionality of the measure, he did not think that the ingenuity of the honourable proposer, great as it was known to be, would be able to establish that. But he would be glad to learn how the principles of the constitution could be said to be preserved, if so large a proportion of the population were to be subjected to the operation of the mus tiny bill; to be marched from one end of the kingdom to the other, and subjected to all the privations, restrictions, and subordination, that men who had made a military life their choice, were generally liable to. The bill appeared to him to be one of the greatest infringements upon the liberties of Englishmen that had ever been attempted.

Sir J. M. Pulteney stated, that he had the greatest confidence in the superiority of a regular army, but it was impossible this country could be defended without having recourse to some other species of force. Our population was not so extensive, or our people so unemployed, as to allow us to raise a large army upon the spur of the occasion. Periods might arrive, when it would be necessary a very large proportion of the people should be ready trained and armed; at the beginning of a war, for intance, when the strength of the enemy's navy might be greater than it was in time of peace, and when the amount of our regular army might be less than it was in time of war. The French army, after the misfortune of General Mack, would never have reached Vienna, if there had been an armed population to obstruct their passage. It was asked, why have recourse to this measure of a

6

general

general training, when you have a volunteer force ready drilled to your hands? The volunteers, he would admit, were entitled to great praise. He admired their zeal, and in many instances he approved of their disci pline; but he would no more trust to voluntary services for the defence of a nation, than he would to voluntary contributions for the support of its finances. He would not enter much into the bill; the execution of it might be attended with difficulties, but he was so attached to the principle, that he would give it a fair trial. There were however, two or three points on which he wished to say a few words: and, first, as to the unconstitutionality of the measure. He could perceive nothing unconstitutional in that exercise of the prerogative vested in his Majesty, or in subjecting a part of the population to temporary inconveniences, to avoid greater calamities. The amount of the number of persons to be trained, was, he understood, to be 400,000 men; a force certainly equal to encounter any danger by which this kingdom would ever be me naced. It was in this way that the French armies were first formed, by incorporating the national guards with the regulars. There was another part of the bill which he also much approved; that which provided for the appoint ment of proper officers. It would destroy all the ends for which this force was to be called together, if it were to be left in a state of insubordination and confusion. As to the expence, considering the security which would be derived from the possession of such a force, he thought that a subject of very inferior regard. He could, indeed, have wished, that the men might be trained, as it took place in certain parts of the continent, free of expence; but as that was not possible, he thought the advantages more than counterbalanced the expenditure.

Mr. Spencer Stanhope said, that if the bill before the committee was meant to be acted upon, he would not hesitate to pronounce it one of the most obnoxious and oppressive measures that had ever received the sanction of that House. The plan was nothing less than to call out every fourth man in the kingdom capable of bearing arms. According to the okl military lists, the persons of that de - scription amounted to 840,000. This was three years ago, The militia service took off 40,000 of them. The volunteers took off about 240,000 more; so that they had to raise 200,000 men out of the residue, not amounting to more

than