be put to a severe trial. He read a part of the act which, in his opinion, proved that this was a breach of faith. This was a point on which explanation was necessary. But it was said that these men would not be compelled, if they would come out voluntarily. This was like an observation made, he believed, by Swift, who said, that if a woman lay perfectly quiet and passive, it would be impossible for the strongest man in Ireland to ravish her. Then it allowed of substitutes; for a rich man could escape for a fine of 101. and a poor man for one of 5l. He had, on a former occasion, called the volunteers a stigmatised asylum. He endeavoured to justify this expression, referring to the debates some time ago, wherein they had been called by the right honourable secretary, a depository of panic and a refuge from compulsion. He would read the words of the right honourable gentleman, from a history of the debates, published by one who the right honourable secretary himself had said deserved a golden statue, and who therefore was not likely to give an unfavourable report of his words. Mr. Paull spoke to order, and said it was irregular to quote from a former debate.

Mr. Speaker said, he had always understood that the strict rule of the House was, not to admit such citation of words used in a former debate; but at the same time, this rigid adherence was sometimes not required.

Mr. Paull-I say, the honourable and learned gentleman is manifestly disorderly.

Mr. Speaker--When the Speaker delivers an opinion, in which the House acquiesces, there is an end of the question.

Mr. Bragge Bathurst-I must call the attention of the House to the respect due to the chair. This gentleman is young, and he may not be aware that there is no fresh appeal after the Speaker has laid down the rule, and the House has acquiesced in it.

Mr. Perceval said his object was merely to justify the epithet he had applied, and he thought the interference of the honourable gentleman wholly unnecessary. It would however be recollected, that the volunteers had been denominated a depository of panic, of which an experienced officer would be glad to be disencumbered, as a prudent wrestler would of the unnecessary raiment by which his muscular action was impeded. He had intimated that no sufficient elucidation had been afforded. Was this complaint well founded? There were 300,000 volunteers, and

200,000

200,000 men were to be raised under this act. Yet if the former were to be disbanded, only 200,000 would remain. Was this the intention? What were the expences attending this scheme? What method was to be adopted with regard to the officers over this armed peasantry? To what extent, and in what manner, was this to operate on the population? Nothing of this sort had been explained, and yet the House was called upon to sanction such a project. To the particular clauses of the hill he should have another opportunity to advert; thus much had occurred to him with respect to the general principle, to which he must object, from every notion he could entertain of sound dis

cretion.

Mr. Secretary Windham and Mr. Bragge Bathurst rising at the same instant, the former gave precedence to the latter.

Mr. B. Bathurst apologized for persevering; but he feared, if the right honourable gentlemen had preceded him, he should not have gained the attention of the House. He was surprised at his honourable and learned friend, when he talked of this bill as being opposed to our free constitution, and liberty and justice, and so forth; and not less at the opposition given to this bill by those who supported a former one of the same tendency. If this bill were an infringement on the rights of the people, that was so also; if this were a refuge for the volunteers, that likewise possessed the same character. It was no disparage ment to so numerous a body as the volunteers, to suppose that they were not all animated by the ardour of patriotism; every man who had at all attended to the philosophy of the human mind, must be convinced of the variety of feelings by which it was actuated; and to provide against any defection in this useful institution, the new project now recommended was designed. It had been intimated, that there was no necessity for the bill, because the immediate danger was over. Who could look to the posture of Europe at this day, and say the times were not perilous? Was the calamity of the hour only to be regarded, and were we not to look to future éxigencies? He admitted that the volunteers had been the salvation of the country, but was no diversion of the accumulated power of France against these islands now to be apprehended? Were we wholly insensible to the vast augmentation of the power of the enemy? Was Bonaparte so diligently employed in VOL. III.

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making Kings, that he never turned his thoughts to unmaking Kings? We used to think the wooden walls of old England were sufficient for her defence; wisdom had exploded this prejudice, and we were now to resort to addi tional means of protection. With this view the object of the bill was not to reduce the volunteers, but to do what was subsidiary to that resource. It was the grossest misconstruction both of the intentions of the right honourable gentleman and of Parliament, to conclude that the volunteer system was to be abolished. The act to which he had alluded of 1800, said, that if persons would yolunteer, the statufe should not take effect in the district where the people so far accommodated themselves to the designs of government: they came forward under their own officers, and they were accepted by the Crown. Was it to be then said, that because the King had acceded to such proposals, ministers were pledged not to adopt the present measure on the broad ground of political necessity. As to the volunteer bill, this is its auxiliary; so also it is to the regulations for limited service, as had been well explained by an honourable gentleman (Mr. W. Smith). If the volunteers were better disciplined than the corps under this bill, the terms under which these were engaged were more convenient to the public service; but the great recommendation of the plan was, that it would iminediately train a large body of men, and by the succession contrived it would in time instruct in the use of arms the whole population of the empire. It had been said, that danger was to be apprehended from calling out the popu lation of the refuse of the capital. If any such danger really existed, it was easy to avoid it, by not requiring the services of those who were unfit to be entrusted with arms in their hands. All the arguments that were resorted to with reference to the peasantry of the Tyrol, as far as they went, were clearly in favour of the present bill: but a fair comparison, in such a case, could not easily be drawn between the subjects of an arbitrary government and those of a free monarchy. It was said, that to draft the men raised under this bill into the regiments, was obnoxious. In case of invasion the King could order any man to take the field; was it then to be said, that it was improper, under such a contingency, that those levies should be employed where they could be most useful? and was it to be supposed, that on such an occasion the

people

people of this country of right and liberty, would not be anxious to stand forward in the defence of all that was valuable to themselves and their posterity? This bill has been erroneously represented as not recognizing the volunteers, like the former: it said, in the most distinct manner, that if a man be a volunteer, or shall become one, he shall not serve under it: it not only recognized the volunteers, but indicated the wish of the legislature, that their number should be augmented. Some allusion to words used by the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Windham), had been irregularly adverted to; but, whatever were the termis employed, looking to the measures of ministers, it was clearly their intention to favour the volunteer system; and with this view, if any were not pleased with the society they met with under the present measure, they might select their own corps of volunteers, and remove the objection. If the volunteers, in the event of invasion, were to be put on garrison duty, how were the ranks to be filled up in the army, after a destructive engagement, more advantageously than by such a resource as was provided by this bill? He would defy any man to discover an expedient that could more effectually answer this end. The island had alone been preserved by the successive measures adopted; this was one of the most valuable, and the encmy would abandon all future hope of subduing our territory, when they saw an armed and disciplined nation ready to present their bodies as a rampart for its defence. It was upon these grounds that he approved of this bill, whether he looked at the immediate or the remote effect, and he was sensible that the labourer or the artisan would not in such a pursuit regard the shillings and sixpences be should lose in subtracting a few days from his ordinary occupations. He was not at all apprehensive of any jealousies between the volunteers and these new levies; they were admirably adapted to harmonize with, and assist cach other; and with a proper attention to call forth the strength and spirit of the country, he trusted that, under Providence, no human power could endanger our security and independence.

Mr. Windham, at so very late an hour, rose, he said, with reluctance to trespass upon the attention of the House: but after the many speeches they had heard from both sides, both now and here'ofore, it would be unnecessary for him to dwell for any considerable time upon the subject. One U u 2

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of the principal imputations of blame to him urged by the opposers of this measure was, that he had not introduced it to the House or commenced the debate with a speech explanatory of his own views of it at large; but to do this, he must have repeated every speech he had made upon this topic in the course of the last three years. Another objection urged against him was, that he had on various occa sions undervalued, and treated with contempt, the volunteers, and that this bill was calculated to supersede them altogether. The first part of the charge he utterly denied, and declared it was his wish, often repeated, that the volunteers should continue: and this bill, so far from being calculated, or intended to supersede the volunteer system, had for its object merely to render the volunteers that which they were originally intended to be, according to the principle avowed by those who first proposed their establishment, namely, a body of men serving their country at their own expence. Another objection to this bill was, that its principle was compulsory, and therefore repugnant to the feelings of Englishmen. But gentlemen who used this argument, seemed to forget that there was such a thing existing in this country as a militia force, entirely mustered and recruited upon the same principle, namely, by ballot, which he always understood to be a compulsory principle; and that the army of reserve, and the former training bill, for which those very gentlemen had voted, and who were now so much shocked at the idea of compulsion, were carried on upon the very same compulsory principle of ballot; and without compulsion, and expence, which was another objection to the bill, he should be glad to know how it was possible to have any public force in the country? Another objection to the bill was, that its principle was unjust, oppressive, and a violation of a positive contract entered into by Parliament and the country; namely, that if they raised, in the several districts, a certain number of men, that they should be exempt from the operation of a somewhat similar principle under a former bill: but he begged to know how such a contract, entered into under circumstances existing at that moment, was for ever after to tie up the hands of Parliament, and prevent them, under any change of circumstances, from adopting measures absolutely necessary to save the country from destruction? But would gentlemen who used this argument condescend to reflect (although the numbers of our army had greatly increased

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