was granted. But supposing the right honourable gentleman had been the minister of Henry IV. what would have been his counsel? True it is, (he would have said) that your majesty is well disposed towards your protestant subjects: -true it is that all your majesty's subjects, and your protestant subjects in particular, thought the time was come for discussing their claims, and listening to their grievances; but certain petty objections exist, certain little prejudices must be removed, certain paltry animosities must be allayed; and I advise your majesty, therefore, not to suffer the question to be now taken into consideration. Such would have been the right honourable gentleman's advice. But Henry IV. would have spurned such a minister from his presence. But, it had been said, if the claims of the catholics of Ireland be granted, the same must be granted to the catholics of England. Certainly, and it ought to be so. Nay, more: the test acts must be repealed, and the dissenters would have their immunities also. And where was the danger to the established church from all this? He (Mr. Whitbread) was a member of the cstablished church, and he wished to see it fortified by the removal of all those restrictions which were only a weight and an incumbrance upon it. These fears about the established church were always sounded in our ears, as often as the present question was agitated. If the catholic claims were granted, the church would be overturned; if the dissenters were relieved from tests, which were virtually abrogated every year, the church would be overturned. In fact, however, the church of England, from the purity of its principles, from the firm root it had taken, never could be overthrown but by its own indolence, its own want of foresight. The alarm about the church of England, however, was not a peculiar one. We had seen it stated by a grave divine, that giving away the bible, the pure fountain of all our religious knowledge, without gloss or comment, would overturn the church of England. The honourable member concluded an eloquent and most animated speech, by adverting to the opinion expressed by the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Canning), that concession might be delayed till the catholics were in a state of flat despair, and when their petitions would be a species of revenge. Good God! continued Mr. Whitbread, might I not exclaim here, O wonderful ignorance of human nature! Could it be supposed that men exasperated by disappointment, furious from oppression, and intemperate from necessity, would employ the whining accents of petitioning? He feared they would not; he feared they would adopt a different language; and lest, therefore, they should be driven to that extreme, he thought that parliament should gratuitously accede to their claims. The attorney-general replied. Mr. Ponsonby argued in behalf of the motion, and was followed by Mr. Perceval, who declared that he gave the noble lord who brought forward the motion credit, both for his motives and for the ability he had displayed in its support. He was sure he was not paying an ill compliment to that noble lord to say, he deplored, however, in common with other members, the calamity which had taken it out of those hands which were fully competent to do it justice. This he thought he might say, for it be longed longed to feelings which the sentiments or differences of party ought not to influence. But at the same time he could not withhold his strong disapprobation, both of the mode adopted on this occasion by the other side of the house, and of the object which that mode was selected to accomplish. Upon the general subject of the catholic claims, said Mr. Perceval, “my opinions are well known-I have seen no reason to alter them-I have before said that I could not conceive a time, or any change of circumstances, which could render further concessions to the catholics consistent with the safety of the state, and to those opinions I continue to adhere.” The right honourable gentleman then entered into an argument, in order to show that the veto was the only security that had ever been suggested-and that this had been refused by the catholics, who, though willing to receive concessions, were not quite so willing to concede. Some se. curities, however, were deemed by all men (and particularly lord Grenville, who had stated in his letter that he must despair of the success of the catholic cause, unless some arrangement of this kind was acceded to) to be essential conditions; and as these were not likely to be granted, he could not think that this was a fit time for any further discussion of the question. Mr. Grattan said, if the conduct of the catholic body had been more vehement than that of men in the full enjoyment of their rights would have exhibited; if it was not altogether constitutional in every point, parliament themselves were the cause; they had deprived four millions of people of their righ s, and they were not to be astonished that these four millions of people had spirit enough to feel the injury. The catholics were called upon to triumph over their prejudices, as if the prejudices were altogether on the side of the catholics. It should not, however, be a victory of one sect over another sect, but of both against common prejudices; and the result of this mutual victory would be, the establishment of public tranquillity. The conduct of parliament towards the catholics was injurious to the best interests of the nation. It taught them to consider that the principal argument against their cause, however invincible, was not to be defined; but if the people were to be familiarized to repeated defeats, they would destroy that spirit by which the liberties of a people were to be protected. The refusal of the catholics to take the oath wished to be imposed upon them, was the strongest argument in their favour; for a deist, an atheist, nay, even Lucifer himself, might take that oath which the catholics would not take. He did not consider the catholic oath intended as an evidence of the catholic conviction, but as an evidence of their political disaffection; and whenever this disaffection ceased, the principle on which the oath was justifiable ceased also. It had been said, that concession to the catholics of part of their claims formerly produced no good, and that they were dissatisfied at that government under which they were granted. Did the concessions produce no good effect? What! was it no advantage that the soldiers and sailors, after the repeal, shed their blood with pleasure at your command? Although the ministry who granted the concessions derived no advantage, the ease and facility with which the army and navy afterwards were filled, was an ad vantage vantage to the country. A right honourable and learned gentleman (sir John Nichol) thought it would be advisable to wait till the Irish were better informed, and less disorderly and less barbarous. But this was a reflection on the English government. However hard the laws under which they suffered, still an affectionate peasantry filled the armies of their country. With respect to the danger of the church the church establishment was not made for the ministry nor the king, but for the people. It had been thought proper to give the religious establishment of England to the people of Ireland, in which, perhaps, they were right; but they were wrong if they imposed upon the people of Ireland the English church, and then made that a reason for disqualifying them for the enjoyment of their rights.-Was it to be said that the establishment of the English church was not compatible with the liberties of the people? He had never seen any alteration proposed in church or state, without going into a committee; and he lamented to see the manner in which the ministry were raising up imaginary difficulties, for they seemed to embrace the difficulty merely because they were in opposition to the principle. Any thing might be food for opposition to an unwilling ministry. He remembered, when the Irish reform was proposed, no plan could be found practicable; but when the union came, it was all done in less than a week. Upwards of twenty-five lawsuits existed at present in Ireland. They had gone to law with the whole people of Ireland, and they had gone to law with individuals, and no less than five actions had been brought against the lord chief justice; there were suits on all sides, and able lawyers on all sides: law. yer against lawyer: evil against evil: longrobe against longrobe; but would the fire which raged at present in Ireland be extinguished by all the twenty-five law-suits, or by all the sufferings of the members of the Irish committee? The evil did not exist in this or that chief justice, or in this or that secretary, but in the law itself; and in order to produce satisfaction it was necessary to repeal the law. When an artery in the political body was tied up, that body naturally fell into convulsions. The Irish catholics exhausted their treasure and their blood in the defence of the empire; the people of England were not insensible to their merits, nor unwilling to acknowledge their merits; and supposing the minister should procure a temporary triumph, he would tell him, that the honest feeling, that the honour and honesty of the people of England, would not long support him in that triumph. Whether this country should stand or fall in her struggle with the enemy of Europe, he wished it might stand or fall with Ireland-but with Ireland in the possession of equal privileges and equal rights. For the motion Against it 135 229 Mr. Wallace then moved the appointment of the East India committee; which being opposed by Mr. Creevey, Mr. Grant said that the company would not oppose the extension of commercial intercourse with India: of the advantages likely to be derived from laying the trade with India open, he believed that the sanguine expectations now entertained on that head would end in disappointment. The European traders in the ports of India and China had more goods in their warehouses than they could sell; and they found that European goods were becoming more and more unsaleable. The Americans managed this traffic with more advantage, because they were neutrals, and could carry Indian commodities into the ports of France. Generals Tarleton and Gascoigne said that the merchants at the out-ports would be greatly disappointed if the trade with India was not laid open: the former laid great stress upon the commercial distresses of the town of Liverpool. The motion was agreed to. Feb. 7.-On the motion for the second reading of the bill for preventing the granting of offices in reversion, Mr. W. Dundas and the chancellor of the exchequer opposed it, as holding out a hope which would not be realised, of a reduction in the public expenditure, and tending to excite a popular clamour. Sir Samuel Romilly, sir J. Sebright, lord A. Hamilton, colonel Bastard, Messrs. Ponsonby and Elliot, considering the bill as a measure of œconomy, supported the second reading. Mr. Whitbread observed, that the only two gentlemen who had spoken against the bill were two very principal reversioners. The second reading was then opposed by 50 to 54. Mr. Perceval then moved that it be read a second time on this day six months; to which Mr. Bankes moved an amendment, that it be read a second time this day fortnight. The amendment was lost by 52 to 55. Mr. Ponsonby then moved that the house should adjourn immediately; which was likewise lost by 45 to 59. House of lords, Feb. 10.-The earl of Liverpool, in moving the thanks of the house to lord Wellington for the capture of Ciudad Rodrigo, dwelt on the importance of that fortress as opening a way into almost the centre of Spain. The capture of it in 1810, when Massena with 110,000 men made his attack on Portugal, was owing to the very inferior force which lord Wellington commanded, not exceeding 17,000 British and 14,000 Portuguese. But though the Bri tish commander thought it neces sary to limit himself to the defence of Portugal, by retiring behind the lines of Torres Vedras, he never lost sight of the necessity of recovering it. His first step was to re store the fortifications of Almeida, in order that it might serve as a depôt; and he was happy to state that that fortress was in a respectable state of defence. His lordship here paid a handsome compliment to the different departments of the army, which had, under the disadvantages of a siege in the depth of winter, taken the fortress by storm in so few days, which had cost the enemy a month. This was a blow to the enemy which he did not ex pect; pect; the calculation upon scientific grounds being, that it might hold out twenty-five days; Marmont had therefore calculated on being in good time on the 24th. His lordship concluded by moving the thanks of the house to lord Wellington, for the skill, ability, indefatigable exertions, and consummate wisdom manifested by him in the siege of Ciudad Rodrigo. This and other motions of thanks to general Graham, the other general officers, and to the engineers of the artillery, British and Portuguese, were agreed to nem. diss.; as also a tribute to the merits of major-gen. Mackinnon. In the commons, the same day, after a speech from the chancellor of the exchequer, in which he dwelt upon the skill and valour displayed at Ciudad Rodrigo, votes of thanks were passed to lord Wellington, generals Graham, Picton, Colville, Craufurd, Vandeleur, and Pack; likewise to the officers and privates of the artillery and engineers, and to the officers and privates of the Portuguese army serving under lord Wellington.-An address to the prince regent, for erecting a monument to the memory of major general Mackinnon, was then voted. Feb. 11. Mr. Creevey, after an historical account of the imposition of the 4 per cent. Leeward Island duties, and the abuses which prevailed in regard to that fund by the numerous pensions paid out of it, such as 30007. per annum to the earl of Chatham, 15007. to lady Grenville, and 90007. a-year to the late duke of Gloucester, for twenty years, moved for a committee to examine into the nature of this revenue, its amount and application. Messrs. Long and Perceval opposed the motion, alleging that these duties formed part of the he. reditary revenue of the crown, and could not be diverted without an express act of parliament. Mr. Whitbread observed, that the purity of the opponents of this motion was questionable, as they had each a pension of 15001. a-year from the fund. Mr. Marriott suggested, that as the duties were a voluntary gift on the part of the people of Barbadoes in the exuberance of their loyalty, they should be dispensed with now that the colonies were heavily taxed, and reduced to such distress The motion was then negatived by 50 to 19. Feb. 13. Mr. Whitbread, after a prefatory speech, in which he inferred from the official papers published by the American government, that there had been a want of conciliation on our part towards the Americans, and that Mr. Pinkney, during his mission to this country, experienced much neglect and incivility from marquis Wellesley, who did not return an answer to many of his notes until after the lapse of weeks, moved an address to the prince regent, for copies of the correspondence between the two governments, and the different ministers, on the part of both countries. Mr. Stephen declared that the charges made by the honourable mover were unfounded. America had advanced extravagant and unheard-of pretensions, which were incompatible withour maritime rights. Mr. Curwen spoke with much warmth against the orders in council, and the measures of government. He concluded by expressing a hope that the honourable gentleman (Mr. Perceval) would not continue much longer to direct the councils of the country, and that |