have been attended with very great injustice-injustice to his successors, injustice to his creditors at large. The right honourable gentleman had certainly fallen into a very gross, though not an intentional error; and in support of this, he begged leave to read the message delivered by Mr. Tyrwhitt.Mr. Sheridan put it to the candour and fairness of the right honourable gentleman, whether there was in this language any thing that, by a just and liberal construction, could be understood as a surrender for ever of his royal highness's claims? At that time it was well known that the commissioners had deducted 10 per cent. without exception, from the whole of the demands made upon the prince, and that the prince had declared it to be his resolution not to take advantage of this deduction. Although parlia ment had therefore voted 60,000!. per annum, no alteration was made in the prince's expenditure. He had taken the liberty of making this explanation, as there was much misconception on this subject out of doors, and this misconception also possessed the mind of the right honourable gentleman. Mr. Perceval was anxious to say a word or two upon this point, because he should be extremely sorry to be misunderstood upon it either in or out of the house, and more particularly in consequence of the message read by the right honourable gentleman, and read, as he could not help suspecting, for the first time this night. He (Mr. Perceval) had certainly said that it was not his intention to propose any steps whatever with reference to those claims, because, conceiving that those claims rested upon no legal foundation, he was not the person who could be expected to frame any measure of that nature. The impression on his mind, also, undoubtedly was, that these claims had been finally renounced. But after the message from the prince, which had been read, he was at a loss to conceive how any friend or adviser of his royal highness, possessing a mind so liberal and enlightened as the right honourable gentleman, could ever resolve to recommend it to his royal highness to revive a suit, relinquished as this had been in 1803. The resolutions were then put and agreed to "That it is expedient that a sum not exceeding 70,0001. be granted out of the consolidated fund to her majesty," &c. &c. That it is expedient that provision be made for enabling his royal highness to assume," &c. &c. Mr. Perceval moved, that a secret committee be appointed to examine into and report what were the ordinary payments made out of the privy purse, for which it might be expedient to provide, and that Mr. Ryder, Mr. Sheridan, &c. be of the said committee. Jan. 17.-On the question that the report of the resolutions be brought up, Mr. Creevey observed, that he found the whole of the additional sums required for the proposed charges in the establishment of the royal household amounted to about 135,000. He should not have risen, had he not also observed that the means of meeting this increased expenditure were in part to be derived from droits of admiralty.He was determined to protest against this principle, because he had always regarded these droits as the property of the country, nor could he bring his mind to believe, that when his majesty's civil list was settled at $00,000. it was in the contemplation of parliament a fund of eight millions should like wise be left at the entire disposal of his majesty, to be used as his own undoubted property. It would be still more extraordinary, if now, after voting to the prince a sum of 100,000l. and while engaged in coming to a new settlement with respect to the support of the executive authority, they should leave it in the power of the prince, which was to leave it in the hands of ministers, to convert the whole of that immense property which, in the event of an American war, would probably be accumulated, by sweeping the seas of her merchantmen, to royal ministerial pur poses. Mr. Brand stated, that he entire ly coincided in what had fallen from the last speaker; his opinion decisively was, that the droits of admiralty ought to be given up for the benefit of the public. This question, however, was now in the hands of an hon. friend of his, quite able to do it justice (Mr. Brougham). He now wished to He now wished to advert to another subject, the arrangements of the household. By the plan of the chancellor of the exchequer, it was proposed to vote 170,000l. to the support and maintenance of the king and queen. This he thought a most immoderate sum. With respect to the means of supplying this expendituze, 100,000l. were to be taken from the civil list, and 70,000l. to be provided by a vote of parlia ment. - This vote he professed his intention of opposing in every stage. He thought, that instead of the double transfer from the prince's income to the civil list, and from the civil list to his majesty's household, it was much better that there should have been but one, ing complexity. He was far from were it only for the sake of avoidwishing that the prince regent discharging all engagements on his should not enjoy every facility for justice or his honour; but it certainly did appear that his royal highness would, upon a full balance, receive 70,0001. per annum customed to receive. more than his majesty bad been ac Mr. Perceval begged leave again fore stated to the house on the subto explain what he had the day beject of the proposed arrangements. He had stated as the result of those arrangements, that an additional for the maintenance of his majesty sum of 70,000l. would be required present circumstances. and the prince regent, under the nourable gentleman himself had The honot appeared to think that there was any exorbitancy in this estimate.The whole amount of the excess thus created above the former exprince were to surrender the whole penditure was 70,000l.: but if the of his income, the expenditure would be 50,0007. less. The whole of the sum withdrawn from the civil list, and forming the greater part of the 170,0007. intended for certainly not restored to it, his the support of their majesties, was royal highness conceiving that this exemption from certain charges to which the civil list was applicable, would render such entire restoration unnecessary. He begged leave spect to what had fallen from the now to say a few words with rehon. gentleman who spoke first on the resolutions. The nature of the admiralty droits, and the mode of their distribution, had been already discussed in parliament, and whatever additional information might be required with respect to the his tory tory and character of that fund, he would be extremely willing should be furnished. The resolutions were then brought up and read, and a bill was ordered to be brought in, and the second resolution referred to a committee of supply. Jan. 20.-The bill for the regulation of his majesty's household, and the administration of his majesty's personal property, was read a first time. Mr. Tierney observed, that from an examination of the estimate of the civil list, framed in 1804, and the accounts of the disbursements for the seven following years, certain productions appeared to him. to be necessary, before he could consent to give his vote for the second reading of the bill. It was impossible to understand, from the papers which had been already produced, what arrangement it was necessary to make, or whether the sums which they should grant might exceed or fall short of what the occasion demanded. From these papers it appeared that the expenditure of the civil list exceeded the revenue by upwards of 120,0001. annually, so that it was not fair to state the civil list at 907,0001. per year, when the real sum expended was greater by 120,0007. Whether this additional expense was really necessary, it was impossible to say, without the production of more documents; for all that could be learned from those already produced, was the actual excess, and the particular classes on which that excess had arisen.He should move, therefore, 1st. For an account, showing the bills paid to tradesmen in the department of the civil lists, under the direction of the lord steward, specifying the heads under which each of the bills ought to be classed, from the 5th of July 1801 to 5th July 1811.-2d. For a similar account of the bills paid to tradesmen, in the department of the lord chamberlain, and the service to which they were applicable when the amount of these bills exceeded the sum of 2007. If that amount appeared too low to the right hopourable gentleman opposite, he had no objection to raising it to such a sum as might be found more convenient.-3d. For an account of the charges of foreign ministers, sums allowed them for equipage, &c. and presents made them for the same period. The chancellor of the exchequer said, as it was his wish that the bill should be committed on Friday, it was desirable that the second reading might be as near to the going through a committee as possible; and for that purpose he moved that the second reading should be on Thursday. He had not the smallest objection to communicate to the house whatever information might be judged requisite ; and adverting to the papers specified by the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Tierney), he could see no objection to the production of them; but he hoped that that gentleman would agree to raise the sums on which he wished much information, in the department under the lord chamberlain, to 5007. because he was himself satisfied that the excess had arisen on sums of a much larger description, though, if it should be found that this was not sufficient, more detailed information would be afforded. He was not prepared to account for the excess of the subsequent years to the estimate, and particularly of the year immediately succeeding; but he thought that it might partly be accounted for for from an impossibility of suddenly reducing, after knowing the determination, a number of expenses which had previously exceeded the estimate. This was a sort of justification for the expenditure of the year following the estimate, and accordingly it would be found that year greatly exceeded the subsequent year. The salaries of foreign ministers had been diminished from the number of missions to which an end had been put; but the extraordinary circumstances attending several of these missions of late years, would sufficiently justify, he trusted, an inquiry into the additional expense on that account. After some conversation between the chancellor of the exchequer and Mr. Tierney, the papers moved for by the latter were ordered, and the second reading of the bill was fixed for Thursday, and ordered to be printed. It was afterwards moved, that 100,000% should be granted to his royal highness to defray the expenses attending the assumption of the regency. Mr. Tierney understood that this sum was intended to cover the expenses incurred by his royal highness during the past twelve months, and the expense of assuming the permanent regency. However ungracious it might be to state objections to this proposed grant, he considered it to be the bounden duty which a member of parliament owed to the public to do so; and if no other person would, he should be the person himself. This sum was for the outfit of his royal highness the prince regent; but why was there to be a sum voted for the outfit of the regent, while none such was voted for the outfit of his majesty? This was a point on which he wished for explanation. He could very well understand why last year demanded, because the regent, as a sum on this account should be to considerable expenses with was well known, was then subjected out any provision for them; but the present, without any distinct were they now to vote a sum like appropriation, without knowing how far it might be adequate to the purpose intended? He knew that the regent had been exposed time past, and if the right hon. to considerable expenses during the gentleman would put his claim on that footing, he should make no objection to it; but from the way and manner in which the present motion was worded, it went to the principle, that on ascending the throne a king was to be fitted out and treated like an ambassador, or a person embarking into any proright hon. gentleman would confession. He hoped, therefore, the sent to withdraw his motion for the present, for the purpose of making a suitable alteration in the language. confessed that this sum was intended The chancellor of the exchequer to comprehend both the expenses incurred at assuming the temporary and the permanent regency, and was intended to be both retro pective and prospective. He had no objection to amend his motion, therefore, to suit so much of the views of the right hon. gentleman. There was a very good reason why a distinction should be made be tween the expenses incurred by a regent on assuming a regency, and by a king on ascending a throne; for it was to be recollected, that in the latter case the personal property of the crown devolved to the new sovereign as well as the real; the one could not therefore be in any wise a precedent for the other. The right hon. gentleman was undoubtedly aware that every monarch, on his accession, could claim the new arrangement of his civil list; but the regent was not in this situation. Several other members took part in this debate, after which the question was put and carried. Jan. 24.-On the question that the order of the day for the second reading of the household bill be read, Mr. Giles said, it was not his intention now to oppose the second reading of it. He only begged to ask of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Perceval), whether it was his intention to suggest any additional allowances to any other branches of the royal family, and if so, out of what fund it was to be proposed that such allowances should be paid? He hoped, also, the house would be informed what was the amount of the droits of the admiralty unapplied? Mr. Perceval said, it was not im. probable that some further allow ance for other branches of the royal family might be proposed, but he had no instructions on the subject. Mr. Whitbread thought it would be desirable that the right honour able gentleman should say what would be his advice on this subject. The right honourable gentleman had said, that the thing was not improbable, but that he had no instructions. On the subject of the 100,0007. a-year, as the estimated expense of the attendance on his majesty's person, the right honour able gentleman seemed to have had a sort of intuitive notion. Was it not fair, therefore, to ask if he had any intuitive idea of a grant of the kind alluded to? Mr. Perceval said, this was a subject not connected with the bill now before the house. Mr. Whitbread contended, that this was no answer to the question. Would the right honourable gentleman allow him to remind him that the civil list was to be handed over to the prince regent with a deficiency of 50,0007. compared with its amount when possessed by his majesty, on the ground that he had not so large a family, so that the prince regent was surely concerned in that expenditure? Mr. Perceval said, if the princesses were to continue permanently with the queen, the arrangement must, of course, be different from what it would be if they were not to do so. Whether it was right that they should continue permanently with her majesty or not, would be the subject of after-consideration. Mr. Whitbread contended that this rendered it more important that the house should know the fact before they provided for the event. They were now to make a provision, with a view to the continuance of the princesses with the queen; and were then, probably, to be told that they were not to continue with her. It was proper that they should now be told whe ther the princesses were or were not to continue with the queen. If they were to continue, then the grant ought to be made; if not, then otherwise. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. Jan. 27.-On the committal of the royal household bill, Mr. Tierney said he meant to pronounce no censure on the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Perceval), who had assented cheerfully to every proposition on his part respecting the production of papers. What ho |