W

tive interference in these cases was worse lained there was no existing interest in than futile, and often the very cause of the place alluded to; adding, that it was the distress it sought to remedy; for when the intention of his majesty's ministers to the market price of money was higher make a new regulation of that place, in than the legal price, the lender, who conformity with the Resolution of that would not part with his property at less House, the terms of which regulation than the market price, was obliged in fact would be submitted to the consideration to charge much more, in order to indem- of parliament. Some delay would, how. nify himself against the risk he incurred ever, necessarily take place in arranging by lending at higher interest than the law that regulation, as reference must be had allowed. This indemnity could always be to Ireland, where a general inquiry was obtained under some subterfuge of pre going on with respect to the several courts mium or commission, and the borrower of that country. suffered thus by the very law that so injudi- Mr. Brougham reminded the right hon. ciously interfered for his protection. The gentleman, that according to the Resolu. interest of money, like the price of every tion of 1810, the place referred to was not other commodity, should be left to find its to be regulated like other places, that is, own level.

reduced from 11 or 12,0001. a year to Mr. Lockhart thought that a better 3,6001., but to be totally abolished, while mode might be devised of answering the the little duty attached to it was to be hon. and learned gentleman's intention, performed by deputy. but still he would not oppose the motion. Mr. Peel reminded the learned gentleLeave was given to bring in the bill. man that there was a precedent resolution

in 1810 to that quoted by the learned PROROGATION OF PARLIAMENT AND gentleman, saving the rights of the Crown, STANDING Army.] Lord Nugent rose and by which provision was inade to grant to postpone the motion of which he had compensation to meritorious officers. given notice for Monday, with respect to Mr. Brougham expressed his determithe prorogation of parliament, with regard nation, if any attempt were made to make to which, his opinion was by no means any grant to the Crown in consequence changed by what the House had heard on of the abolition of this enormity, for such a former evening from the Chancellor of he must consider the sinecure alluded to, the Exchequer, and as to the proposed decidedly to oppose it. As to compensapeace establishment, especially the main- tion to officers, nothing of the kind could tenance of a standing army in a foreign be pretended on this occasion, as there nation, his mind still retained the same im- was no existing interest. pression as he had before expressed with Mr. Peel said, that he made no allusion respect to its constitutional policy and to any grant to the Crown. All he meant practical expediency; But he reserved to say was, that according to the preces the right of bringing those questions under dent resolution to which he referred, prothe consideration of the House on a future vision was made to reward or compensate occasion. The noble lord was proceed any meritorious officers, whose interest ing, when

might suffer by the regulation of any of The Speaker interfered, and submit the offices to which the subsequent resoted to the noble lord, that any observa- lution quoted by the learned gentleman tions in the present instance, would not adverted. be strictly regular according to the cus- Mr. Horner observed, that it would be tom of the House.

unsatisfactory to regulate, or even abolish, Lord Nugent then put off his notice, the office by any other mode than by act without mentioning the day on which he of parliament, because by no other mode meant to bring forward his promised mo- would the public have any security against tion.

its revival.

SINECURE OFFICE OF THE LATE EARL SUPPLY.] Mr. Brogden appeared at the OF BUCKINGHAMSHIRE.] Mr. Brougham bar with the report on the motion " That asked the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, a supply be granted to his majesty." On if he had yet ascertained whether there the question being put, that the report be was any existing interest in the place oc- brought up, cupied by the late lord Buckinghamshire? Mr. Tierney rose and observed, that a

Mr. Peel replied, that he had ascer- noble lord whom he did not then see in (VOL. XXXII.)

(2)

his place, had said, that the House should sion of parliament he had himself voted not be called upon to vote any supplies against the supplies generally, but then it till it was in possession of what was to be was because he objected to the war into the intended peace establishment. For which the country was about to be himself, therefore, he should expect that plunged, and therefore he objected to the information to be given previously to supplies which would be necessary to a supply being voted, and if he should carry on that war. On the present occafeel it his duty to oppose any vote of sup. sion there existed no such general principly, it would be on that ground.

ple; but, unquestionably, when they Mr. Lushington said, that he had, on came into the committee, he, for one, the preceding day, in the absence of his should oppose the voting of even five right hon. friend, stated, that it was the in- pounds until some explanation was given tention of the chancellor of the exchequer upon the finances of the country, and the to lay before the House, on the earliest intended peace establishment. It would opportunity, a general view of the ways not be correct, however, to oppose geneand means for the year; and he had even rally any supply, and he hoped, therefore, ventured to name a day when he thought the hon. gentleman behind him would it probable that communication would be suffer the present question to go to the made. Meanwhile, the ordinary supplies vote. might be voted in the usual way.

Sir Gilbert Heathsote said, that the Mr. Tierney said, it was the usual way right hon. gentleman had looked at him, in which the supplies had been voted for as if he were the person who meant to some years past to which he objected. divide the House, which certainly had

The Speaker then put the question, never been his intention : but if, by conthat the report be received, when several curring in the present vote, he was to be members exclaimed, No, no, upon which understood as sanctioning any peace estathe gallery was ordered to be cleared; blishment which the right hon. gentleman but,

opposite might choose to propose, he Mr. Bathurst rose and observed, that would take his ground at once, and resist the course which the House seemed in.

any supply being voted, for he would clined to pursue, was certainly a depar- never concur in any thing like the peace ture from its customary practice. The establishment which he understood it was question then before them did not involve in contemplation to bring forward. an assent to any particular branch of the Mr. Sturges Bourne observed, that it supply; it only went so far as to recog- was quite unusual to oppose a general nise a supply generally; and surely some vote of supply, merely because the chansupply must be granted. If the present cellor of the exchequer had not made report were brought up and received, it any statement upon the finances of the would still be open to the right hon. gen. country. tleman opposite to object to any specific The gallery was then cleared for a diviitem that might be proposed, upon the sion, and during the exclusion of strangers, ground that no statement had yet been Mr. Brougham rose to ask some question, made of the general finances of the coun- turning upon a declaration made by lord try.

Castlereagh on a former night, when it Mr. Preston thought it quite right to was observed, that the noble lord not oppose any grant of money until the being present, the question ought not to

, House should have ascertained that the be put. Upon this Mr. Bennet remarked, country was in a state of solvency. It that it was the duty of the noble lord to was proper to teach ministers that lesson attend the sittings of that House during which they did not yet seem to have learnt, the discussion of public business, and that that they had brought the country to such his absence from it was a mark of disre. a situation as to make it improper to go a spect. Mr. Lambton added, that the noble step further without due information as to lord was salaried by the public for the her meaps.

discharge of his duty, and his not perMr. Tierney observed, that as there forming it in that House was both a negwas no general principle upon which the lect and an insult. The House did not House could refuse any supply, it might ultimately divide but the report was rebe necessary to reflect a little before they ceived and agreed to. proceeded further in their present opposition. He recollected that in the last ses- EXTENTS IN AID.] Mr. Preston said,

а

that the number of processes issued by go- The Marquis of Lansdowne said, that vernment in the course of the last year, had he wished it to refer to the two last wars. been so excessive, that the subject deserved The account was moved for in that form, the most serious attention of the House and ordered accordingly. The evil was so far increased, as to have be- The Marquis of Lansdowne then stated, come truly alarming. In his tour through that he had some questions to put to the Devonshire, in the course of last summer, noble earl with reference to the treaties, he had learnt, that, in the town of Bidde. and the documents laid on their lordships ford alone, 140 of these processes had table a few days ago; and upon the an, been issued in the course of the year. swer of the noble earl to these questions Like measures were taking place, he un- it would depend whether he should thinks derstood, in every other part of the coun- it necessary to make any motion on the try, and in consequence of this, and the subject. The first question was, whether, depressed state of agriculture, barns were between the period of the treaty of the every where locked up, and the tenants 25th of March, 1815, signed at Vienna, running away. He therefore begged leave on behalf of the different powers, and the to move,

“ 'That there be laid before this period of the subsequent military occupaHouse, a return of the extents, extents in tion of Paris by the allied troops, any aid, and other processes of the Crown, either communications had passed between the for taxes or other debts, which have been ministers of the several powers, or any issued in England during the year ending agreement had been entered into among the 1st of February 1816, with the sums them, with respect to the future governfor which such extents and processes were ment of France, in case the operations awarded.” Ordered.

against Buonaparté should be attended with success? The second question was,

whether, at or previous to the military HOUSE OF LORDS.

occupation of Paris, any communication Thursday, Fobruary 8.

had passed between the ministers of, or The Treaties—Peace Establish- persons authorized by all or any of the MENT, &c.] The Marquis of Lansdowne allied powers, and the provisional governgave notice that he would to-morrow ment established in France at the period move for an account of the peace esta of the abdication of Buonaparté ?' The blishments in the military department, in third question was, whether, in the course each year from 1783 to 1792. His lord of the late negociations between the several ship afterwards stated that it was of great powers of Europe, any thing had passed importance to have this account as speedily relative to the loan advanced by this as possible, and understanding that there country to Austria, and whether any and was no objection to it, he would move for what arrangements had been made for the an account, first, of the amount of the repayment of the same? army in Great Britain, Ireland, and the The Earl of Liverpool was anxious to colonies and plantations, on the 24th of give the poble marquis all the satisfaction June and 24th of December in each year, in his power relative to the several matters from 1783 to 1792; also for an account of to which his questions referred. And the ordnance and engineer establishments, therefore, as to the first question, whether &c. during the same period. The account any communications had passed between was ordered–The noble marquis then the different powers as to the future gostated, that if there was no difficulty in vernment of France, in case the enterprise making up the account, he would now against Buonaparte should be successful? move, for an account of what was due he could state, from his general recollecfrom France to this country, for prisoners tion, that no precise communication had of war, with reference to the last war. passed on that subject during the period

The Earl of Liverpool was not aware to which the noble marquis had adverted. of any difficulty in making up the account, Some information on the point might, he but wished the noble marquis to state more believed, be found in the documents which precisely to what period his account re had been laid on the table. There was ferred; whether merely to the last cam- some reference, if he recollected rightly, paign or not. If it related to the war in these papers, to the eventual restoraprevious to the last campaign, he would tion of the Bourbons. He could not take observe that the account had been can- upon him to say whether any and what celled by the treaty of 1814.

conversation had taken place on that head during the period mentioned ; but there thought it had been among the papers bewas nothing in the shape of communica-fore the House, but if not, he would give tion as to that matter. "It was notorious, the noble lord information upon the subhowever, that the allies always professed ject to-morrow. a very earnest wish and desire that the Lord King also referred to the protocol Bourbon government should be restored, for the distribution of the 700 million to but without making it a sine quâ non in be paid by France, observing, that it was any negociation for peace with France. there stipulated that Austria and Prussia, He did not know whether this answer on account of pressing exigencies, should, would be satisfactory to the noble mar- in the first instance, have more than their quis, but it was all he could at present say distributive share of the amount. He upon that matter. There was always an wished to know, whether the payment of anxious desire on the part of the allies this anticipation of what they would only that the Bourbon government should be be entitled to receive at a future period, restored; but they had entered into no was in any way guaranteed by this coun, sort of agreement, nor was there any thing try? in the nature of an engagement, to effec- The Earl of Liverpool stated, that the luate that object. Then, as to the third only object of the stipulation was, that question of the noble marquis, relative to Austria and Prussia should, on account of the Austrian loan--he supposed the noble pressing necessity, receive in the first year marquis alluded to the loan of 1795 or more than their shares; whilst in the other 1796. Nothing had passed on that sub. years England and Russia would receive ject in the course of the late negociations. more than their shares, which would re

The Marquis of Lansdowne understood store the equilibrium, the noble earl as stating that no negocia- The Duke of Sussex shortly adverted tion took place, and that nothing in the to the subject of a treaty, purporting to nature of an engagement had been entered have been entered into between Russia, into between the allies as to the future Prussia, and Austria, and signed at Paris government of France: if that was so, the on the 26th of September last, in which consequence must be, that we were per- the subject of religion formed a prominent fectly free on that point at the period of consideration. He thought some informathe occupation of Paris by the allied tion should be given to parliament on the troops. As to the other points, it cer- subject, as to the existence, nature, and tainly was not satisfactory to him to bear extent of the treaty, and wished to know that no communications had passed be- whether it was among the documents laid tween the allies and the provisional go- upon the table, or intended to be commu. veroment of France, because an offer of nicated; and whether the copy which had communication had certainly been made | come before the public was a correct or on the part of the provisional government, authentic one. and he presumed he was to understand The Earl of Liverpnol, was not at the that the offer had been rejected.

moment prepared precisely to answer the The Earl of Liverpool nodded assent. questions of the illustrious Duke. There

Lord St. John observing that the con- had been a convention signed between vention of Paris was not amongst the those powers, on the subject to which biš papers laid before the House, moved an royal highness had referred; but whether, address to his royal highness the Prince the copy of the document which was alRegent, praying for its production, which luded to was a correct one or not, he was was ordered.

unable to say Lord King observing, that the conven- The Duke of Sussex asked, whether tion respecting the occupation of a mili- that treaty had been communicated to the tary line in France, referred to an argree- government of this country? ment to be entered into by the allies, re- The Earl of Liverpool answered, that specting the specific distribution of that the treaty was officially communicated to force, and the positions the troops of each the minister of this country at Paris. power were to occupy, wished to know, whether such an agreement had been concluded, and if so, that it might be laid

HOUSE OF COMMONS. before the House?

Thursday, February 8. The Earl of Liverpool said, such an MAD-HOUSES.] Mr. Rose said, that agreement had been entered into, and he as chairman of the committee of the last Session, for inquiring into the conduct of might, he admitted, be sometimes promad-houses, he was instructed to move the duced before that period, but never the House for leave to bring in a bill for the whole mass of the papers together. better Regulation of such establishments. Mr. Lushington did not think it pracBut some gentlemen of the committee ticable to present the papers alluded to being desirous that further investigation sooner than they were usually laid before should take place, he had acceded to their the House. wisli, although the majority of the com- Mr. Huskisson observed, that according mittee concurred with himself in thinking, to the provision of the act, the papers rethat sufficient evidence had already been ferred to were to be presented before the adduced to justify the proposition of a 25th of March, and that provision was unibill; therefore he should propose, instead formly complied with. But it would be of a bill, " That a committee be appointed impracticable to present those papers to consider of provision being made for sooner, as they could not be made out the better regulation of mad-houses in without collecting information from all the England, and to report the same, with their outports. observations thereupon, to the House." Mr. Tierney remarked, that those acA committee was appointed accordingly. counts were made up only to the 5th of

January, and therefore he could not conCONVENTION OF PARIS.) Mr. Bennet ceive the difficulty of preparing them for asked, whether the noble lord opposite presentation to the House at least within had any objection to lay before the House the month of February ; it was obviously a copy of the Convention of Paris ? desirable that they should be laid before · Lord Castlereagh replied, that he had the House as soon as possible, in order no objection to the production of this do- that it might be seen whether there was eument, if the hon. member thought pro- any excess or diminution in the revenue per to move an address for it.

or expenditure. Mr. Bennet observed, that there was Mr. Rose said, that the right hon. genanother document connected with this tleman was mistaken in supposing that convention which he also wished to have the papers referred to could be prepared laid on the table, namely, a copy of the before the 25th of March. Those papers correspondence with the English govern notoriously required a great deal of labour ment respecting the claims of marshal and industry and although the expendiNey under that convention.

ture might be ascertained, it would be · Lord Castlereagh said, that the hon. difficult, nay impossible, to collect the member might to-morrow move for the details as to commerce, from the necesdocument alluded to, and that he, in the sary reference to all the outports, so soon mean while, would consider the subject. as the right hon. gentleman imagined.

Mr. Tierney disclaimed any wish to call ESTIMATES FOR THE YEAR.] Mr. upon gentlemen for the performance of Lushington moved for the following esti impossibilities, but he was anxious that at mates for the year 1816:--the expense of least the accounts conveniently attainable the ordinary of the navy, and the claims should be presented as soon as possible, of the marines; the expense of guards in order to guide the judgment of the and garrisons, and other land forces; the House. expense of building and repairing ships in The motion for the Estimates was then the King's yards; the expense of the agreed to. office of ordinance for land forces; the amount of expense incurred, and not pro- ECONOMY.] Sir Robert Heron wished vided for by parliament; the probable to know from the noble lord opposite, expense of the transport service; the when it was intended to bring forward amount of what was likely to be wanted for those measures of economical reform, the hire of transports, together with a which had been mentioned in the Speech return of the debt of the navy for 1815. of the Prince Regent, and the expression

Mr. Tierney complained that the annual of which had been received with so much account of the income and expenditure satisfaction by the House. of the country was seldom produced till Lord Castlereagh was not aware that after Easter, though those accounts were the part of the Speech which had been always made up by the 5th of January: mentioned alluded to any one particular one or two papers of little importance measure. The hon. member would find,