which all the world is satisfied in; but confined only to matters of discovery. Mr. Garroway fears not any thing the duke can say, in excuse' of himself; he had little advantage upon us by it yesterday. Sequestering him only from his employments, and the king's presence,' is a gentle way, and would. have it done in as gentle words as possible: it is likely he may have been as ill an instrument as any; you have grievances, but will you not have the causes discovered? would call him in, and hear him at large: would have lord St. John's question asked the duke, or any other delivered you. Mr. Sec. Coventry. Lord St. John said, 'one of the Cabal told him, &c.' would know what the meaning of the Cabal is. Mr. Garroway. That is so great a mystery, that he would know it above all things. Mr. Sec. Coventry. We do things, not voluntarily, but by law; the king's privy counsellors! and it is perjury for us to reveal: as for the committee of foreign affairs (of which he is the only man of this house) wishes (he protests to God) that you knew what opinion he has ever given of affairs. Sir Wm. Lewis. The way is to hear him at large and then propose your questions, and he has time by it to ask the king's leave to answer: that has been anciently done in these cases. Mr. Powle commends secretary Coventry for his secresy. This house has liberty to examine any man, not being a peer, and what be discovers is no breach of his oath: but if this house must take no notice of things, and persons are rescued from punishment, we may be all destroyed. A privy counsellor may do it safely, without breach of his oath: in lord Strafford's case, examination was upon oath of what was done at the council-table, and no exception was then taken against it: Cabal is a new word, and what is said there is not said in council, any more than in the bed-chamber; and those few men of the Cabal to encroach upon royal power as the duke of Ireland did, would have that question of the Cabal' proposed to the duke. 6 Sir Tho. Meres. Cabal' and 'Council' are different, but we have power over both. Sir John Birkenhead. In lord Strafford's case the attorney general, when he was examined here, said, he would answer, when he had his master's leave:' it is perjury in any privy counsellor to answer without it. Sir Cha. Harbord. To give counsel to the king' to take away privilege of parliament!' no council can protect him. Serj. Maynard. Supposed this of the parSupposed this of the parliament-men's heads' [said in the king's council] 'to be set upon the house;' will not meddle with that; knows not how the question propounded about the Cabal is understood. Mr. Sacheverell. The duke said, 3, 4, or 5,000l. a year some had got;' would have him asked to every one of them. The Speaker. The things proposed to be asked the duke he will state; the private Cabal to destroy the privileges of this house' 6 Sir Rob. Holmes. He was commanded to fall upon the Smyrna fleet, and has his orders to show from the lord high admiral to do it *. Sir Nich. Carew. By whose advice a Frenchman was made general of an army, when here raised,' another question. Mr. Sec. Coventry. Count Schomberg is' far from a Frenchman; his mother was an Englishwoman, and his father a German. He first commanded the Scots under the duke; and, would he have been a Papist, might long ago have been Marshal of France +. Though Germany be one country, they are not of one mind, in this war; divers princes are now arming in Germany, that will neither obey the emperor, nor the king of France: he came first to marshal Turenne, when he was a Protestant. Sir Wm. Coventry. What was said from the bar, of M. Schomberg, needs not his confirmation. This gentleman might be abler than another man, it may be reasonably supposed, for the king's service, having served long in Holland, and knows the condition of that Country: would lay no more weight on this than will be borne: I wish this was our greatest Grievance; the gentleman came only for the command of the army, when intended for foreign service, and when that intention was laid aside, he went away. Sir Tho. Lee is for avoiding all things that give any umbrage or jealousy: it may be thought as necessary to have a foreign army,' as to have a foreign general;' they may both give umbrage or jealousy, and therefore would avoid them. Sir Ch. Wheeler does not believe that an English general would serve for such purposes; but a foreigner' has given us great jealousies, and would have that one of the questions. Mr. Love would have it another Question, who advised that the army should be appointed to draw up towards London, to awe this house, to make us vote what they please? "This perfidious and piratical attempt on the Smyrna fleet, though performed with the utmost bravery and resolution by sir Robert Holmes, and the earl of Ossory, miscarried. Though the Dutch defended themselves with amazing obstinacy, they could not have escaped (as they did) if sir Rob. Holmes had condescended to impart his design to sir Edw. Spragge, (whom he met at sea) and desired But though sir Robert applied his assistance. to him for intelligence concerning the game he sought, he kept the secret that he might engross the whole honour and profit to himself, and thereby fell into the disgrace of undertaking a bad thing, without having the glitter of good success to gild it over. Ralph. +He was made Marshal in 1676. The Duke's Second Speech to the House of The Duke of Buckingham was then called in, as before, and spoke thus: lington was of opinion to have no towns at all delivered, for one year, and here is the cause of the condition of affairs, with that of the feet, and the French army let go on to conquer; they get all, and we nothing, and agree for none neither; consider who it was locked up with the French ambassador ;* my spirit moves me to tell you. When we are to consider what to do we must advise with the French ambassador: I will not trouble you with reports. Look not upon me as a peer, but as an honest English gentleman, who have suffered much for my love to my country. I had a regiment given me, which was sir Edward Scott's: and, not knowing the law of England, I gave him 1,500l. for it; no Papists, nor Irish in the regiment. I will say nothing of my extraordinary gains. I have lost as much estate as some have got, and that is a big word. I am honest, and when I shall be found other wise, desire to die. A man that has not gotten by all this. I leave it to you. If I am a Grievance, I am the cheapest Grievance, after all this, that ever this house had: and so humbly ask pardon of the house for the trouble I have given it." Questions put to the Duke: with his Answers. Then the Speaker told the duke, That be was commanded, by the house, to ask his grace some Questions, if he pleased to make answer to them.' The duke answered, he was willing.' "In the first place, I return this honourable house humble thanks for the honour of twice admitting me; especially when I consider, how ill I expressed myself yesterday: consider the condition I am in; in danger to pass for a vicious person, and a betrayer of my country, all the world over. I bave the misfortune to bear the blame of other men's faults. I know that it is laid against me the revealing the king's counsels, correspondency with the enemy, in time of war,' and having hindered what the Council would have done. I hope I sball have pardon, if I speak truth for myself. I told you, that, if the Triple Alliance had advantage in it, I had the honour to have as great a haud in it (I speak it without vanity) as any man: then upon the French ambassador's and other intelligence, I had orders to compliment upon the sad subject of Madame. I thought it for the service of the king, that the French ought not to endeavour to be considerable at sea; we were jealous of them, that the Dutch should make their peace with them, because they had power to conquer. When I returned, I had all the demonstrations imaginable that the French had no such thoughts, but that the king of England should be master at sea. I pretend not to judge, whether I, or another, was in the right, but leave the house Question 1." Whether any persons have, to judge. At that time, I, and lord Shaftsbury, at any time, declared to him any of their adwere of opinion not to begin a war, without vices, or ill-purposes, against the liberty of this advice of the parliament, and the affections of house, or propounded any ways to him for al the people, that the parliament might join in tering our government; and if they did, what it; and I believe the king, at the head of his was that advice, and by whom? Answ. It is parliament, the greatest prince in the world: an old proverb, over shoes, over boots.' This this was Shaftsbury's opinion and mine, but reflects upon one now not living [lord Clifford] not lord Arlington's. Then I was of opinion and I would have pardon for not naming him, not to make use of the French ships? but and fear it will be thought a malicious inven to have half the value of them in money, tion of mine. I have said nothing yet but for English ships, which would have been of what I can justify; but this not.-2. What his more service; the French ships of no use to grace meant by this expression yesterday that us, because of no experience, and the use of he had gotten nothing, and that others had our seas, learned by them, of great danger to gotten 3, 4, and 5,000l.:' who they were that is: lord Arlington was of a contrary opinion. had gotten it, and by what means? Answ. I was sent to Dunkirk to the king of France, I cannot acquaint you how they got it, because Arlington to Utrecht. I endeavoured to have not well acquainted myself with the means of What the duke of Ormond money, instead of ships; at my first audience, getting money. the French king was willing to comply with it, has got is upon record. Lord Arlington has but, after some time, by letters and returns not got so much, but a great deal.—3. from hence, it was altered. I make no reflec-whose advice the army was raised, and Papists tions, but declare matter of fact. Then lord set to officer them, and M. Schomberg to be Shaftsbury and I were of opinion to order the their general? Answ. I cannot say by whose war so, that the French were to deliver towns into our hands; an useful precedent! lord Ar King Charles's sister, the duchess of Orleans, who, in 1671, soon after her return from an interview with her brother at Dover, was poisoned at Paris, (as was supposed) by the direction of her husband. The duke of Buckingham was sent over, on that occasion, with compliments of condolence. 6 By * Reflecting on lord Arlington. The French ambassador, here mentioned, was M. Rouvigny, a Protestant, whose son was created earl of Galway, by king William, and com mauded the British forces in Portugal, in the reign of queen Anne. Burnet says, "he had the appointment of an ambassador, but would not take the character, that he might not have a chapel, and mass said in it." the feet of the House, as an English gentleman." advice,' but, on my honour, not by my advice; | but was told by a man that is dead, that lord Arlington sent for him, and it will be easily proved.-4. Whether he knows, that any have advised to make use of the army to awe the debates and resolutions of this house? Answ. This is the same question of a discourse from a man that is dead to a man that is living. If I had desired it, I might have had the command of the army that M. Schomberg had; but I have been told, that lord Arlington would have the government by an army.-5. By whose counsel and ministry the Triple League was made? Answ. Lord Arlington and I were only employed to treat, and finding the danger that we were in of being cheated, pressed the ambassadors to sign before they had power. It was an odd request to the ambassadors, yet they did sign.-6. Who made the first Treaty with France, by which the Triple League was broken, and the Articles thereof? Answ. I made no Treaty.-7. Who advised the shutting up the Exchequer, whereby the orders of assignment and credit of the exchequer were broken and destroyed? Answ. I was not the adviser. I lost 3,0001. by it.—8. And the Declaration about matters of Religion made? Answ. I do not disown that I advised it, but no farther only than what might be done by the Declaration by law.-9. And the Smyrna fleet fallen upon, before war was declared? Answ. It was lord Arlington's advice; I was against it: so much against it (as careful of the honour of the nation) that I incurred some anger from the king. Lord Arlington principally moved it and I might say more -10. And the second Treaty with the French king at Utrecht, and the Articles thereof? Answ. Lord Arlington and I were sent over to Utrecht, and found in the common people of Holland, in our journey thither, the greatest consternation imaginable like burning the Rump in England, crying, God bless the king of England! and cursing the States;' and had we then gone over and landed our men, we might have conquered the country; the prince of Orange would have had peace with France; but what share should we have had? Though he was the king's nephew, yet the king must be kind to his own country. If peace had been then, we had been in worse condition than we were before: at last, the prince of Orange hoped for a good peace; but I was not for France to have all, and England nothing. The consequence would have been, Holland must depend on France, if France had conquered near Germany. I think it a wise Article, that France should not make peace, without us.-11. By whose counsels the war was made, without advice of parliament; and the parliament thereupon prorogued? Answ. Lord Shaftsbury and I were for the advice of parliament for the war. I can say nothing to the prorogation'. I believe the parliament will never be against a war for the good of England; and so desire the pardon of the House: I know not how words may have slipped me, and lay myself at : · The Duke then saluted the House, as before, and withdrew. Debate on the Duke's Answers. Colonel Birch. What the duke has told us are personal discourses of one that is dead.' He may inform us, if he pleases, of one of those, living: would have him declare them, and have him called in again. Mr. Sawyer. What came from a dead man can be of no use imaginable; but here is no answer made to setting upon the Smyrna fleet.' Probably he is less guilty as to state affairs, but for public scandal, would have the Question put for his removal.' Sir Nich. Carew hoped for great light from the duke, but he gives no light as to persons of a contrary opinion to him. Sir Courtney Poole, thinks us not so much in the dark: thinks this noble lord will satisfy you farther to-morrow; he named but one about the army, he may tell you more. Sir Tho. Lee. All he has said terminates in one man; but be believes no man so big as he represents him: it was in his power to have given larger answers if he would: he cannot believe that some one person, without help, could carry counsels against two or three; not one evil against two good: by the same right, you may send for him, as he came before; and if not, you may send to the House of Peers for their leave. Mr. Secretary Coventry. We have little light from the duke without explaining: no oath of secrecy does bind a man to promote an ill act; but as for promoting, or not promoting a league, it is no sin: in one of the Answers, the duke makes lord Arlington instrumental in breaking the Triple Alliance; but it is not the duke's saying it, that makes him so: nor lord Arlington's saying it that makes the duke so: otherwise, happy is the first accuser: would be equal on both sides, but would ask, Whether any man believes that lord Arlington would own all this? You are to have farther light from the duke. Send to him to come again, if he be willing, or, if not, to the House of Lords, for leave for him. Col. Birch would send out two gentlemen to know, whether the duke has any thing farther to say that is parliamentary. Sir Rob. Howard. Some things came from the duke that require us to proceed more care fully, than we are about to do; but the ques tion that is pressed is like hearing him after, and condemning him first. Upon the whole, you cannot but think the time of the day, and the thing, great enough to put us upon consi dering it till to-morrow. Mr. Russel. If the debate be adjourned, the duke, by his power, may prorogue us again, as he has done formerly. Mr. Sawyer pities the duke's condition here, and the loss of his estate; but would have you proceed in it, Sir Nich. Pedley. The duke may have patents for life. The serjeant of your mace has a patent for his place, for life, and it is a freehold in him. You cannot take away the duke's office without legal proceedings against him by rule of law, there must be a scire facias: you cannot put a man from his freehold; and he would not have the question. Sir Tho. Lee sees not such danger in this, as is alledged by impeachments, the Lords are judges. By the Address we make to the king, the king cannot grant against law more than is in his power would clear it to the house. It may fall out to have the same case before you again, and would not have any person out of the power of the House of Commons. Mr. Harwood has had great honour for this person, but now must lay all aside here: with what face can you make such an Address to the king? you do nothing to take away the king's charity, in compensation of his places, and doubts not but the king will do it: it is a burden greater than he could wish he had, but would not put it upon the king by our Address. Sir Wm. Coventry. To remove him' is the general sense, but would not wound other men, by destroying his patent, nor wound his freehold, nor take away his blood: would have added to the question, reserving to him the profits of such places, as of right, he has by any inheritance, or freehold.' 6 Mr. Powle would have him removed out of offices that are granted him at his majesty's pleasure. : Mr. Waller moves, not for the duke's sake, but for his own. You take away from him more than you leave him: common fame Mr. Swynfin. Be the offender ever so great, against one of the lords is the same thing here: or the offence, you may err in the manner of you go with an humble desire to the king to proceeding would have you proceed by such have our judgment put in execution: because rules as agree with justice: in the duke of Lau you have not liked men, they have been re- derdale's case, persons did prove things against moved: some say, he never said the word al-him (your members): looks for judicial proof ledged against him; others say, others said them-no proof-witnesses may be corrupted: not many men are hanged for want of their pardon, if recorded: never any man was hanged, with his pardon in his hand: this is a great convulsion of state, a peer to come down to your house. If times are so corrupt, I must piece out my innocence with a pardon: if this nation be ever preserved, it must be in this place; and where so great a power is, if not as exact a justice with it, we are not safe: God has given us great power, and thank God for it. Mr. Sec. Coventry. The duke's office is a patent, and a freehold: the duke may have a recompence for his office. Sir Cha. Harbord. The duke's office cost him a great sum of money, and it may be any man's case: pray be tender in what you cannot put the king upon, in point of law. Sir Wm. Lewis. We have cause to be tender in the things offered, and to desire that the king would be pleased to give him leave to sell his place.' 6 Lord Cavendish, should not be for the latter part of the question, if it took his place' from him, for the king may give him leave to sell it.' Lord Cornbury is not for taking away the duke's life. Would have things rightly understood it concerns not his freehold; he holds it only during the king's pleasure. Is not against his leave to sell it: do you intend to leave employment' wholly out of the question? He has a patent for gentleman of the bedchamber, and a pension for it, and his lieutenancy of Yorkshire; and, on the other side, would not recommend him to the king, and not think him fit to be about his person. ་ Sir John Duncombe has a great compassion for this honourable person's misfortunes: what confort can a man have, after such a charge, without some compensation for his place: which he moves for, : before you; information has been but remenbers no proof: it has been the course that great ministers of state do take out those pardons, sometimes one or two in a year as to impeachment, this way was well; for then all evidence on both sides is heard does not think removal from the king's presence' a light thing. Put the case, you had this upon your own members-would you have freeholds taken away without proof? Thinks it an ill precedent: let the case be this, Lords or whose it will, we have nothing but justice for our own preservation whoever shall judge a man, and not hear him to the point, though his judgment be just, he is unjust in judging. Col. Strangways. There is no freehold in a grant at the king's pleasure:' will you make Lex et consuetudo parliamenti' nothing? We do as a grand jury does, persuaded in conscience that the thing is so. Neither fornicator, nor adulterer, &c. shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven'-Hopes that virtue will be countenanced here: this vote is only to remove such a Counsellor,' to restore the king, and honour and integrity unto the kingdom: no sanguinary law: not for taking away his freehold, but only what he holds at the king's pleasure hopes that men of sobriety and honesty will be near the king, and would have the duke removed. Sir Tho. Meres. Removing from the king's person' is, in consequence, removing from places and employments: it is also said, 'we are heard as a grand jury, in impeachments;' but, as you proceed now, there are objections; you now give your last judgment, whatever the king will do. Says another gentleman, you have heard no proofs;' but these shall not go without an answer: this House had great power in judgment by common fame, as every one of us is told without doors. Lex Parlia mentaria. Thirty persons, in Mr. Prynne's books, were desired to be removed from former kings, because the people spoke ill of them; some of them, though not all, were removed: the duke is a fine person, and taking with us, and we have a tenderness; but it does not become this house to countenance selling of places: though common fame is the great prerogative of this House, yet would use it very sparingly. Sir John Berkenhead is against clancular and clandestine proceedings: in the common law, if the Christian neighbourhood say, one keeps another man's wife,' yet upon his oath he may clear himself: lord Bacon calls common fame ' a common liar;' and the precedents cited, of removals, were in ill times; is against the latter part of the question. Mr. Powle. Birkenhead said, the precedents, cited, were of ill times,-11 Richard 2, a great while before his deposing: that was done in the 22d. The effects of those censures then kept things quiet, till his deposing: the duke of Ireland was then removed, for encroaching upon royal power: wishes we might ever use this power moderately, and that we had no occasion of using it now. they be such as the people have an ill opinion of, you may remove them; and it is better for us then to name them, for we must be responsible for them: shall you depart from this, and call for direct proof of persons only, and not things? You have great prejudice by it: you cannot take his freehold from him by your vote, and he is therefore for the question. Sir Tho. Littleton fears, that you may clash with the Lords upon another thing: when the point was of removal from the king's presence, 29 Hen. 6, as now, the king answered, he is content to remove them from his presence, except they be Lords, unless they approve.' Whe|ther any clear precedent, the Commons originally to go to the king to remove, in case of peers, is not satisfied: it is not the case of the duke of Lauderdale, who is no peer. Lord Cornbury. Littleton is mistaken in the precedent of 29 Hen. 6. The duke of Somerset, and the bishop of Winchester, were removed: the words of the accusation were, 'the people spake ill of them: the king grants the request of the Commons, unless to some few persons that were Lords, who are necessary about him: the Lords' Concurrence will beget another debate, but the king is still at the same freedom. Resolution against the Duke. Col Birch is one of those who desired no resolution of this matter till another day; and did it then for another reason, not for favour to the duke: it is the custom, that the Speaker call for a clear account, and wishes it had been now from the duke: but cannot a gentleman At length it was resolved, "That an Address give a clear opinion in the question? Would" be presented to his majesty to remove the not call for it: when once the debate was, in "duke of Buckingham from all his Employthe Convention, of recommending Counsellors "ments that are held during his majesty's to the king, it was answered, all the awe you pleasure, and from his Presence and Councils have upon the king's Council hereafter is, if" for ever." 6 234. Proceedings in the House of Commons against the Earl of ARLINGTON: 25 CHARLES II. A. D. 1674. ON the 15th of January, 1674, Sir Gilbert Gerrard states to the House of Commons, that he has a Complaint against a great minister of state, the earl of Arlington ; all great affairs and transactions go though his hands: he has been the great treasurer; the management of that must pass by him: he has no prejudice to him, or disobligation from him, but it is a duty he owes the king and nation: it was * See an account of him in the Note to Cla-just upon your heels the taking away your Lirendon's Case, p. 307, of this volume. +"Bennet, advanced afterwards to be earl of Arlington, was made secretary of state, by the Interest of the popish party, [in 1662.] He was a proud man. His parts were solid, but not quick. He had the art of observing the king's temper, and managing it beyond all the men of that time. He was believed a Papist. He had once professed it, and when he died, he again reconcilied hmself to that church. Yet in the whole course of his ministry, he seemed to have made it a maxim, that the king ought to show no favour to popery, but that all his affairs would be spoiled, if ever he turned that way; which made the Papists become his mortal enemies, and accuse him as an apostate, and a betrayer of their interest." Burnet.-He died in 1685, leaving an only daughter, married to king Charles's favourite son, the duke of Grafton. berties, contrary to the laws of the kingdom; and to back this, an Army was raised of dangerous men, unfit to command; nothing has passed for some years but through his hands; the Army, the Declaration; he the great conduit-pipe; this instance many within these walls know, and abroad he is reported a papist, and reconciled to the church of Rome: in the Journal you may find the Act for suppressing Conventicles; upon his majesty's power to suspend Laws in the Proviso; upon the division of the house, Arlington staid in for it with not above 30: every thing passed through his hands; all Licences according to the declaration. He then opened and presented to the House the following ARTICLES of treasonable and other Crimes of High Misdemeanor against the Earl of Arlington, principal Secretary of State: 7 |