The Earl of Suffolk spoke in explanation, and stated that his ideas did not go to the abolition of tithes, which, he agreed, should be considered as the property of the church. He adverted to and enforced some of the propositions he had in the first instance advanced, and referred to the act of Elizabeth, which recognised the principle, and enjoined enquiries of the kind, as we understood his lordship, through the medium of the judges, who were to report the result of their enquiries to the crown, and which he thought it would be well to act upon. After some farther observations,. the question was put, and decided in the negative, without a division.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, June 18. -- The house was counted by the speaker at four o'clock, when the requisite number of members not being present, it was immediately adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF LORDS. Wednesday, June 19. motive for acting. He, therefore, proposed an amendment, tending to restore the provision of the former act, in that respect, This proposition, not seeming to meet the sense of the committee, was, on the question being put, negatived without a division. The report of the bill was ordered to be received to-morrow.-A petition from sir John Johnstone, bart. claiming the title of marquis of Annandale, &c. was presented, and referred, by their lordships, to the consideration of the committee of privileges.The house resolved into a committee on Morris' divorce bill, when several amendments were made by the omission of certain clauses.-The stipendiary curates bill went through a committee of the whole house, and was ordered to be reported to-mor row. [CONDUCT OF JUDGE FOX.]-Lord Grenville seeing a noble secretary of state in his place observed, that he rose in consequence of his understanding the noble lord had given notice of his intention to bring in a bill to continue the proceedings in the case of Mr. Justice Fox, until the next session of parliament. He rose to trouble their lordships with a very few observations upon the subject. He was aware he was not perfectly [MINUTES.]-Lord Glenbervie, accom- in order, but his sense of the intended propanied by several members, delivered a ceeding was so strong, that he seized the message from the commons, purporting, first opportunity he had of saying a few that the committee of that house, on words upon it. The proposed measure, in which the permission of their lordships for his opinion, would tend to a material altethe attendance of the viscount Sidmouth, ration of the whole frame and constitution and the earl of Buckinghamshire, had been of the parliament of this country. He hoped requested, having closed the hearing of full time would be allowed for the consievidence, and made their report, the ne- deration of a question of such great imcessity for such attendance, on the part portance; a question of no less moment, of those noble lords, no longer existed.— than whether they should now, for the first Mr. Alexander presented the Seamen's En- time since parliament existed, enact by a couragement bill, and the London Port Im-law, that the king should not have the power provement bill, which, with several private bills, recently brought up, were severally read a first time.-The bills upon the table were forwarded in their respective stages. Among these the Irish Paper Duty bill, the English and Irish Militia Pay bills, and the Militia Adjutants' bills severally went through committees of the whole house, and the reports were received. In the committee on the General Turnpike Road bill, The duke of Norfolk objected to one of its leading provisions. By the former act, a moiety of certain monies, levied for offences under the act, was granted to the informer. In the present bill, the whole money was appropriated to the repair of the roads, which Aould deprive the informer of his principal by his prerogative of putting an end to motions, discussions, and bills, which might be pending in both houses of parliament. As far as he had been able to inform himself upon the subject, there was no instance upon record of continuing from session to session, bills, or the deliberative proceedings of the legislature. His lordship adverted to a solemn decision, which had been given with respect to the point by both houses, on a particular occasion. With respect to election committees, where the proceedings were continued, the case was quite different, as such made a separate tribunal, the proceedings of which were within itself, and were so constituted by a special law, and for a particular purpose. He concluded by . again expressing his hope, that full notice would be given of the intended discussion of a measure of such great and peculiar importance. Lord Hawkesbury observed, that no proceeding should obtain with respect to the subject adverted to by the noble baron, which would indicate any intention on his part of taking the house by surprise. He was, however, rather obliged to the noble lord for giving his general opinion at so early a period upon the point, though it was done in a way, perhaps, contrary to the forms of that house. Of the intended discussion, the noble baron might be assured, ample notice should be given. He could not say that he coincided with the opinion thrown out. He saw the point in a different light. It should be recollected, that a great difference existed between a legislative and a judicial proceeding of that house; and he conceived in that view of the subject what he proposed could very properly be done. Added to this, the case was perfectly a novel one, and the house would rather have to form a precedent. With respect to the other house of parliaprent, a case occurred which, he seemed to think, bore a similitude to what he had suggested he meant the case of sir Thomas Rumbold, wherein, with reference to a bill af pains and penalties, it was proposed to continue the proceedings. With respect to his intended bill, he should propose shortly to bring it in, have it printed for the perusal and consideration of their lordships, and, with respect to the discussion which might take place on the question for the second reading, the noble lord might depend upon it, that ample notice should be given. [MESSAGE FROM THE KING.] Lord Hawkesbury delivered the following message from his majesty: 66 George R.-His majesty thinks proper to acquaint the house of lords, that the communications which have taken place, and are still depending, between his majesty and some of the powers on the continent, have not yet been brought to such a point as to enable his majesty to lay the result of them before the house, or to enter into any further explanation with the French government, consistently with the sentiments expressed by his majesty at the opening of the present session. But his majesty conceives that it may be of essential importance that he should have it in his power to avail himself of any favourable conjuncture for giving effect to such a concert with other powers, as may afford the best means of resisting the inor dinate ambition of France, or may be most likely to lead to a termination of the present contest, on grounds consistent with the permanent safety and interests of his majesty's dominions, and the security and independence of Europe. His majesty therefore recommends it to the house of lords to consider of making provision for enabling his majesty to take such measures and enter into such engagements as the exigencies of affairs may require. G. R." Lord Hawkesbury then moved, that his majesty's message be taken into consideration to-morrow. Agreed to.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Wednesday, June 19. [MINUTES.]-Sir J. B. Warren brought up the report of the committee, to whom the petition of the trustees of the Naval Asylum was referred. Ordered to lie on the table, to be printed, and to be taken into consideration by a committee of the whole house on Friday next.-On the motion of lord Glenbervie, it was ordered, that a message should be sent to the lords, acquainting their lordships, that the select committee on the eleventh report of the commissioners of naval enquiry having closed their examinations, the commons no longer thought it necessary to desire the attendance of the lord president of the council, the earl St. Vincent, and the earl of Buckinghamshire.-The Bank Forgery bill was read a second time, ordered to be committed on Tuesday, and in the mean time to be print ed.-The London Port Improvement bill was read a third time, and passed.-Serjeant Best moved the second reading of the Members of Parliament Bankrupt bill. Sir W. Lemon conceiving that the bill was of great importance, hoped the learned gentleman would not press it through the house the present session. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday.-The London Fish Bounty Amendment act was read a third time and passed.-Mr. Long brought up the report of the committee to whom the petition of the trustees of the British Museum was referred, stating, that in their opinion, the purchase of the late Mr. Townley's collection of an tiques, was an object of great national importance, and that the sum required of 20,000l. was a moderate price for the same. Ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed.-On the motion of Mr. Bankes, it was ordered that such part of the report of the the number of men wanting to c committee on the petition from the trustees | words from sir W. Young, the of the British Museum, as related to the ad-given up.-Colonel Craufurd move ditions making tʊ that building, for the re- there be laid before the house an ac ception of antiques, &c. be referred to a committee. The house went into a committee on the Irish Compensation acts, in which Mr. Vansittart stated his intention to bring in a bill obliging the commissioners to advertise a certain day of limitation beyond which no claim should be attended. The House having resumed, the report was received, and Mr. Vansittart obtained leave to bring in a bill accordingly.-Mr. Rose brought in a bill for repealing the duties on woollen goods exported to the East Indies, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.-On the motion of Mr. Huskisson, accounts were ordered to be laid before the house, of the amount of Exchequer bills outstanding and unprovided for, on the two loans in 1804, one of eight millions, the other of one million and a half.—Mr. Vansittart brought in the Irish Compensation Limitation bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.-Mr. H. Lascelles brought in Mr. Pitt's Indemnity bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. Mr. Long presented an account of the further sums that would be necessary for the erection of a court-house, &c. in the city of Westminster.-The house went into a committee on the American Wool Trade bill; when it resumed, Mr. Rose obtained leave to bring in a bill permitting the exportation of wool from the British plantations in America to the united kingdom.-Mr. Foster brought in a bill for regulating the duties on [COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.]—The the imports and exports of Ireland, which of the day for the house resolving itse was read a first time, and ordered to be a committee of ways and means havin printed and to be read a second time on read, it was ordered, on the motion Monday. The house went into a committee chancellor of the exchequer, that the on the Goat Skin act, the report of which estimates and accounts be referred to t was ordered to be received to-morrow.- committee. On the motion for th On the order of the day for the second read-ker's leaving the chair, ing of the Woollen Manufacturers bill, Mr. Brooke intimated his disposition to abandon the bill at present, if he could be assured that a similar one should be brought forward early next session. It was a subject of much consequence, as it kept in suspense a body of above 200,000 men. The chancellor of the exchequer, though he could give no pledge that such a bill should be brought forward, yet assured the hon. gent. that the attention of parliament should certainly be drawn to the subject as early as possible in the next session, After a few VOL. V, Mr. For asked the right hon. gent. site, whether or not he was right in standing that the sum of five million appropriated to a particular purpos been already voted in the committee ply? The Chancellor of the Exchequer r that it was certainly included in the vote, but that there had been no speci on that subject; in fact the specific vo been kept back from the circumstan the destination of that sum not havin ascertained, He hoped, however, 2 G Mr. Grey observed, that when he gave the notice of his motion, which stood for to-morrow, it was because no communication of the kind alluded to by the right hon. gent. had been made to the house; an occurrence which might alter his intention.The house then went into a committee, in which it was resolved on the motion of the chancellor of the exchequer, that the sum of 4 millions out of the surplus of the consolidated fund, and the sum of £1,192,115 19 11 out of the surplus of the grants of last year, be granted towards the supply. The house having resumed, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow. to-day or to-morrow to lay before the house | forward his claims in parliament, but it was a message from his majesty on that subject. not until several applications had been sucAn accidental circumstance alone had pre- cessfully resisted that, in 1790, the idea of vented his not having done so already, but pleading inadequacy in point of pecuniary he trusted before the rising of the house he compensation first occurred to the noble might yet be enabled to communicate it to duke, after an interval of 25 years from the them. conclusion of the original bargain. The hon. gent. entered into a history of the proceedings of the commissioners and of the privy council on the duke's claims, and contended that his grace's supplementary petition was meant to surprise those who were unacquainted with the merits of the case into an acquiescence with his wishes. Nothing could be more absurd than the argumenta that had been urged by the friends of the noble duke, that the British parliament had no power to bind the Isle of Man. It was by an act of parliament alone that his grace had any right whatever in the island. Without that act he would have been excluded from it. The circumstances attending the negociation of the sale between thẹ crown and the ancestor of the noble duke had been most open and honourable. With regard to the assertion, that the value of the revenues had increased, he was willing to adinit it; but why had they increased? Because they had been in the hands of the British parliament; because wiser measures had been adopted with regard to them. Had the new system failed, and had the revenues been diminished as much as they have been augmented, would it have been considered fair or honourable to deduct from the price. paid for them? Why then should the seller be considered as entitled to a participation in advantages which never would have ac crued had the island remained in the posses sion of him or his family? In his opinion the compensation already awarded was more than equivalent to the object gained. If more, however, must yet be granted, as British funds had benefited from the circumstance, from British funds the additional remuneration ought unquestionably to pro ceed. [DUKE OF ATHOLL'S CLAIM.]-The order of the day having been read for the house resolving itself into a committee on the report of the committee to whom the petition of the duke of Atholl had been referred, colonel Stanley moved that the speaker do now leave the chair. Mr. Frankland opposed the motion, and expressed his conviction, that a more important subject had never been brought before parliament; not certainly with regard to the magnitude of the immediate object of discussion, but with regard to the danger of the precedent. He was convinced that the friends of the noble duke would essentially serve him, were they to advise him to withdraw his petition, to begin the business de novo, and to give it quite a different direction. Much stress had been laid on the dissatisfaction that was manifested at the period when the royalties of the Isle of Man were sold to the crown of Great Britain by the ancestor of the noble duke; but this was the dissatisfaction that naturally arose in men of high minds at being deprived of peculiar privileges; it was unconnected with any pecuniary idea, and he was persuaded, that had 700,0001. been the purchase money instead of 70,000l. that dissatisfaction would still have been displayed. The noble duke himself, in his early applications to parliament on this subject, had not hinted at any inadequacy in the pecuniary compensation. He had merely asserted his right to various htthe vestiges of princely power, and having been defeated in his attempts to procure there in the courts of law, he had brought Mr. Rose observed, that the duke of Atholl, confessedly deprived of rights for which no sum could be an adequate compensation, came to the house for the restoration of several rights, which, when granted, could be no loss to the public. He failed in this; but although no pecuniary compensation was at first thought of, yet, when it was found that the right was sold at a quarter of its value, it was perfectly open to the noble duke to bring forward the present claim. The bargain had been precipi tately concluded. If it had been deliberately made, as was usual in such cases, something might indeed be founded upon it, in opposition to any further compensation. But when the noble duke's ancestor was told by the first legal authority of that day (lord Mansfield), that if he did not accept what was offered he would have nothing at all, was that a way to conclude a bargain, or were the rights voluntarily yielded? An hon. gent. had said, that parliament always had the right to legislate for the island. It certainly, however, had no such thing. The hon. gent. had quoted several acts in proof of his opinions. The fact was, that these acts only referred to the security of the country against any illegal and injurious proceedings that might be carried on in that island. He had quoted the act of the 7th of James I. to prove that the island was not independent of parliament. But, what said lord Coke? though it was not entirely a dictum of his, but the opinion of the other judges. They all said, that parliament had not a right to legislate for the island; but that some special provisions might extend to it. For instance, parliament had a right to take care that it should do nothing to injure this country. But then it was urged, that the act of parliament settled the succession to it. Undoubtedly it was so far dependent on the crown, and parliament also settled the succession to the crown of Scotland in the same way. Mr. Rose then adverted to the several acts relative to the island since the time of George I. One in particular had been mentioned by the attorney-general, in his opinion given on this subject, to prove that parliament had legislated for the Isle of Man. This was stated by him as an act to prevent the exportation of any goods from the island but its own produce. The truth was, however, that the object of the act was only to prevent the exportation of any goods to this country except its own produce. The hon. gent. had said that this was a title without emolument, and mentioned, that in 1700 it was only 1001. per annum, which had been gradually increasing till in 1793 the revenue was 1500l. per annum. What did this shew, but that the revenue was in a rapid state of improvement? It was surely proper that, in making a bargain on this subject, it should be considered not only what the revenue was at the time, but what it was likely to become. The right of the noble duke's ancestor to the royalty of the island was clear, and for all the rights which he possessed, he only received 70,000l. Mr. without reference to any account: Grenville, urged by the revenue board, had taken 5000l. per annum, and that increasing too, from the individual, and only paid 70,000l. which was no adequate compensation even in a pecuniary view. Mr. Rose then defended the duke of Athol from the charge of delay and contrivance in this case. The hon. gent. had said that as parliament gave, it might take away. Suppose it had given away a freehold estate, could it take it again? Yet this was as complete a private right as any freehold estate. The way of dealing here had been very extraordinary, and different from what took place in other cases. Some said, that no pecuniary com→ pensation should be granted for rights of this sort. All he would say was, that parliament had in several instances decided otherwise. It was cruel to say, that after a bar gain had been concluded, in a case of this sort, where there was a total misap→ prehension of the value of the article, and a great reluctance on one side, a door should not be left open for further consideration. They said, that parliament could take measures to cut down these rights. But it had no right to take such measures. There was a surplus revenue from the island, and from this the compensation was proposed to be paid. It was said that the noble duke was anxious to have the sovereignty restored. He had heard nothing of this, but he was anxious to have a fair compensation for his pecuniary loss, and to this he was entitled on every principle of justice and equity. Sir William Young, having taken an active part in the discussion on a petition prez sented from the inhabitants of Man about twenty years ago to the house, thought he could furnish the house with some lights on the subject. That petition stated, that one half of those who were formerly engaged in the contraband trade had emigrated to America, and the other half had resorted to the fishery for support. Of thirty-two thousand inhabitants which the island contained, there were three thousand employed on the seas, being a greater number of ablebodied men in proportion to the population of the island, than any other part of the united empire afforded for his majesty's navy. The ancestor of the duke of Atholl had farmed the revenue of the island to a merchant of Liverpool for one thousand pounds a year, and the duke had no right to claim additional compensation in consëquence of the increase of that revenue under the fostering care of the British legislature, |