the security of our constitution on those | tion. I shall quote another instance, points, that has not been violated. I know which occurred shortly after the revolution, not if it will be disputed, whether money to prove how jealous the parliament was, can be raised and disbursed in this king-in those days, of their privileges on this dom, for the service of the crown, without point. The instance to which I allude, the consent of parliament; but that large is that of the Bank act, which, in express sums of money have been so raised and terms, debars the government from bordisbursed, we have seen from recent and rowing loans of money, even from the diundeniable facts. It, therefore, becomes rectors of the Bank, without the cousent highly necessary to ascertain whether loans of parliament: and is it probable, I ask, of money can be raised from the people that government should be prohibited by the ministers of the crown, without the from borrowing money from the Bank, consent of parliament, consistently with and be left at liberty to raise loans from the principles of the British constitution; others? The fact is, that the restriction because scarcely a session of parliament in the Bank act was made on account of passes without one or more votes enabling the connection existing between governthe minister to raise loans for the state ment and the Bank, and to guard against upon exchequer bills; and if it be the law the probable influence of the former over of the constitution that loans cannot be the latter, and the consequent facility of raised upon exchequer bills, without that procuring thence loans of money. But, permission, it certainly cannot be legal to sir, it never could have entered into the issue navy bills for the purpose. But apprehension of the framers of that act, though I may entertain no hopes of suc- that ministers might be at liberty to go cess in the motion which it is my purpose into the city and search from one street to to offer, it is my duty to bring it forward, another to raise money by the aid of broand at least to state to the house what for-kers. In fact, the reason why they con- . mer parliaments have done in similar ca-fined the restriction so peculiarly to the ses, and what opinion they entertained of Bank was, that they never once suspected the power of ministers to raise public any other means would be resorted to. loans without their permission. It ap- My object therefore is to shew how such pears by a resolution of the house, passed on the 7th of June, 1680, that if any person whatsoever should issue exchequer bills, or other government securities, for the purpose of raising sums of money for the service of the crown, without the consent of parliament, he shall be responsible to parliament; and in other resolutions, the same principle is directed against any person who shall purchase tallies by anticipation. But, sir, another principle is, that it must be obvious government can-issued in the only legal way they ought to not raise loans from the public, without have been issued, namely, for stores and the consent of this house; for if this house actual services; and which becoming due, were once to admit such a principle, or instead of being paid off, were taken up by pass such a measure unnoticed, it would issuing other navy bills, as has of late been not only surrender the most valuable of the practice at the Bank, no less a sum its privileges, but every other privilege it than 4,300,000l. have been raised by the has obtained, with that would speedily issuing of navy bills; and of this no comfollow. A learned writer upon the con- munication was ever made to parliament. stitution of this country (Millar) has said, It appears, page 513 of this report, that on that it has so guarded every avenue and the 2d October, 1802, a letter was written passage, by wich the prerogative could in- by the secretary of the treasury to the compvade our rights, that the crown cannot troller of the navy directing him to issue raise any loan or supply of public money navy bills for the sum of 500,0001. for the without the consent of this house, and is, purpose of raising that sum. One would therefore, obliged the more frequently to magine, by the frequent aud familiar use call meetings of parliament, being unable of this kind of resource, that instead of to levy any money without their interven-his majesty trusting to the house as the evils have heen guarded against by the constitution. No member of this house, who lived within fifty years of the revolution, could have conceived that any minister of the crown, or any government in this country, would have ventured to adopt the measures in this way which we have seen practised within the last few years, and passed by without any enquiry. Even since the year 1800, independently of the vast number of navy bills that have been proper channel for granting supplies, it from the explanation I shall this day rewas only necessary to issue a letter from ceive (I allude to the manner in which the secretary of the treasury to authorize they have paid away the money, and the raising of enormous sums upon navy which, in my mind, is still more reprebills. But, sir, my objection goes equal-hensible than the mode of raising it); it Jy to small sums as well as large; because was surely their duty to have submitted if you admit a small sum to be thus raised the whole of the circumstances under to-day, a large one will be raised in like which they acted to parliament, and the manner to-morrow. In the process of a proof of necessity would have obviated all little time, any sum, however enormous or objections to complete indemnification. In unnecessary, may be raised by the crown, page 449 of the Report, you find, by the without the consent of this house. In this question put to sir Andrew Snape Hacase, sir, it appears, that the order from mond, and his answer thereto, that those the treasury issued on the 24th of October; bills were issued for the purpose of raising on the 10th of November the money was money, and not for stores furnished, or raised; parliament sat the very next day, actual services rendered, which would yet no communication whatever was made have been the only legal ground; and in to this house. It is unnecessary for me the next statement you find them stated as to state what would have been the opinion bills regularly issued for stores received of parliament in other times upon a pro-and services rendered. This, sir, was a ceeding of this sort. It is however clear, most gross imposition upon the house; that the enormous sum I have stated has for instead of being issued to discharge been raised without any application for debts to come due in the course of the the assent of the house of commons. It is current year, they are appropriated to pay sufficient for me to say, that this sum was the debts of former years; and those are raised at periods, during great part of circumstances which, if parliament had not which parliament was sitting; and that no been imposed on, it would never have sanccommunication whatever was made. Now, tioned or consented to such a violation of sir, if it be not lawful for the government its own privileges. Such a conduct, sir, I to raise money without the consent of par- submit, was in the highest degree repreTrament, will any man say this transaction hensible, and if such attempts to impose on is legal? What, I ask, is the pretence to the house, by the production of false vouchjustify it? State-necessity will, I allow, at ers or false returns, be permitted, the contimes arise, that may authorize such con- sequence must be to destroy all confidence duct in a minister; but it cannot prevail in the accounts stated by ministers. No for two years together, nor supersede the transaction can be more repugnant to law: duty of communication to parliament. As possibly it may be explained away; but the acts stands, it is illegal. All I ask, until I have other proofs, I must agree then, is, for the house to go into the en-with the opinion expressed by the commisquiry, and let it be for those gentlemen on sioners in their report, that they see no the other side of the house to shew the reason why there should have been any existence of any state-necessity, not by departure from the usual form of proceedstatements here, but by regular evidence ing, and resort had to such measures as before a committee. By law the crown is these; measures which, I believe, would restricted from borrowing money for any never have been discovered, but would purpose, even for paying debts, without have remained for ever concealed from the the consent of parliament; and here no house, had it not been for the talents and new circumstance appears, for which a mi-vigilance of the commissioners of naval nister could not have been prepared to enquiry. If it was possible that any such justify the measure upon the ground of state-necessity could exist for two years, exigency. But, sir, there is another cir- what becomes of the boasting statements cumstance of which I complain still more made during that time to this house? For than of that which I have stated: for instead of the country being in that misethough I feel that, on the part of ministers, rable state of exigency which called for standing in the situation they do, it was a such desperate expedients, the right hon. high violation of the law of the country, as gent. constantly stated, in pompous lanI understand the report (and I shall be guage, that we had abundant resources to glad to find I have misunderstood it); carry on the war in which we were enga . quiry, are men not fit to be entrusted with such confidence, they are unworthy of their offices, and ought to be dismissed. 1 ad-. mire, however, this fastidious delicacy, which can disburse such sums as 95,000l. in one instance, and 16,0001. in another, without even a memorandum of the mode of expenditure, while the latter turns out ged. Whereas, it would now appear, wel vice; and therefore it could not be supe were in a state of poverty. I can suggest plied from any sum for the appropriation but one of two reasons that could actuate of which ministers are responsible. What any minister in such a case; namely, that security then has the house for the disposal either his estimates must have been short of such money? not even the oath of the of the proper amount, or a part of the mo- minister, as in the case of such service; ney voted for naval services must have nothing but a mere assertion; in which case, been employed for the purposes of the I beg to ask whether parliament can be army, or some other service; and this said to have any control at all? But if this too would be another instance of violation is the sort of quietus by which a minister is of the law, which strictly forbids the ap- to cover the expenditure of such a sum as plication of money, voted for one purpose, 95,0001. in one instance stated to be paid being appropriated to any other. How to a man whose name even is not menhas it happened that money was not pro- tioned, and 16,000l. in another, for servided, when the navy bills are issued at vices of too delicate a nature, forsooth, three months, and therefore could not to be disclosed even to the commissio come by surprize?—Sir, I think I have ners. of enquiry, I know not to what ex proved that there is ground to charge his tent profusion and irresponsibility may majesty's ministers in this case with a vio-travel pari passu. But his majesty's mi lation of the law, a misapplication of the nisters, not satisfied with violating the public money, and a gross deception upon law, violate even the rules laid down by this house; and unless the right hon. gent. themselves. If, however, the commissiocan shew that I have totally mistaken thatners of the navy, and those of naval enreport, and justify his own conduct, it must be plain that he has violated the constitution. At all events, I have shewn enough to prove the necessity of going into enquiry.I have to complain, in the next place, of another violation of law, in taking from under the control of the lords of the admiralty those transactions, for the success or failure of which they only are re-to be the ever memorable stone expedition, sponsible, and transferring them to that of the secretary of the lords of the treasury, who have no more to do with them officially than the lord chancellor. Sir, I will say, that any commands so given to any naval officer, not sanctioned by the first lord of the admiralty, ought not to have been obeyed. It has been settled by an order of council, as appears in page 499, that all naval juries must be directed by the lords of the Admiralty, and any difference of opinion be ultimately subject to the control of the first lord; all navy contracts, except for secret service, must be made under his direction. You will find, that 100,0001. has been raised by navy bills, for secret service, by the same illegal mode. But it must be obvious, that navy bills cannot be legally issued for secret services; the proper fund provided by law for secret services being the civil list, under what is called the civil list act. And the right hon. gent. who introduced that bill, so framed it, because he knew no other proper source, as ministers were responsible to parliament for all sums voted them for specific service, but not for secret ser known to every waterman on the river long before it was attempted, in vain, to be carried into effect.-Having now, sir, stated to the house, the ground of my motion, I do not call upon it to pronounce judgment. We stand upon a different footing from that of a former night, when you, sir, by your decision, did so much honour to yourself and the high and important station you fill. There our judgment was warranted by the admission of the party accused; but here we have no such ground to go upon. The house, however, is called upon to inves tigate, and the right hon. gent. has told us that he will not oppose any investigation, as far as it goes towards his own conduct; but whether it is his pleasure or not, it is not for us to enquire. It is our duty to inves tigate. We owe it to the country. His majesty's ministers may, perhaps, make out a case for their own justification, but they are bound to govern the country, not only wisely and justly, but according to law. I have in my hand an old statute of William III. which lays it down as an indispensable maxim, that all kings and queens, who assume the government of this country, shall be bound to administer sittings of which it would render unnecesit according to the laws of the laud, and sary, striking at the same time at the vitals not by their own will, caprice, or private of the constitution, he, had to observe in judgment; and that no minister shall be the first instance, that this was not the opiallowed to depart from this law with impu-nion of the commissioners of enquiry, nity. Sir, it was objected to the motion whose diligence, talents, and integrity, of an hon. friend of mine (Mr. Fox), for were so much commended by the hon. and the emancipation of the catholics the other learned gent. They were satisfied with saynight, that it could not be granted, because ing, that they did not suppose the practice it was contrary to the established law of arose from any indirect motive, though it was the state, and might endauger the consti- irregular. The hon. and learned gent. had tution. I hope, sir, the same srcupulous argued with more eloquence than was neregard for that law and that constitution, cessary, on a point which nobody could be will operate also in this case, and that no inclined to dispute, that it was the duty of minister will be allowed to violate either. Ikings and their ministers to govern acshall now move you, sir, "that a select committee of this house be appointed to take into consideration the eleventh report of the commissioners of naval enquiry, and report their opinions thereon to the house." the last war. This was the system of paying all bills at the day, for if money was not ready to pay thus, the credit must of course be impaired. The reasons why the navy debt grew up were various, arising from the nature of the service, and the manner in which it was provided for. The cording to law. But the hon. and learned gent. had overlooked the practice that had so long prevailed from session to session, on the necessity inevitably felt of incurring a navy debt from year to year, for services not provided for in the year preceding. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it This practice had been long recognized and would not be necessary for him to trouble had never been complained of. A meathe house long, as he was so far from wish-sure which he had the honour to recoming to oppose the enquiry proposed by the mend, had rendered the issue of these navy hon. and learned gent. that the appoint-bills more economic, and had been the ment of a committee for that purpose was means of saving millions to the country in the object of his particular desire. He was sure the result of the enquiry would be, to explain the matters referred to by the hon. and learned gent. in a manner perfectly satisfactory to the house; and it was the more necessary these matters should be so explained, as the hon. and learned gent. had had room so completely to mis-house voted a certain number of seamen, take them. He could not, however, agree which was made the ground of a rough to the motion in its whole extent, because charge under all the different heads. The that part of the report which related to pay might perhaps be calculated with some secret service could with propriety be re-accuracy, if the numbers did not vary ; but ferred only to a secret committee. What- the wear and tear, victualling, extraorever was not of that nature, he was ready to dinaries, stores, and other expences, were allow to go to a select committee. As it necessarily uncertain in their amount. might be inconvenient that two committees would not besides be denied, that his.. should sit at the same time on the same majesty, if he saw occasion, had not a subject, the same witnesses being likely to right to increase the number of seamen be examined by both, and perhaps to be employed, while parliament was not sitwanted by both at the same time, he should ting. The prices of stores and victualling recommend, that the committee for the fluctuated from year to year, so that it was general matter be instituted first, and when impossible any estimate could preclude that committee should have made its re- the necessity of incurring navy debt. The port, the committee for the secret matter measure which had been taken, at his recommendation, in the last war, of increasing the allowances from 41, to 71. a month, had gone very far to reduce the accumulation; but it was impossible to prevent the debt altogether. The practice of issuing navy bills was as old as the revolution. For a long time the only regulation with respect to the payment of them': may It was, that those of longest standing should | whatsoever source he might have derived be paid first. Thus they may be outstand-them, he should come to the committee ing for fifty or sixty years, without any ab- prepared to give proofs of the charges he solute obligation to pay at any precise time. had made; or, in failure, that he should The alteration that had been adopted in return to the house prepared to retract 1794 went not to prevent the issue of bills, them. It would be recollected that the which was impossible, but to provide that year 1800 was a year of peculiar difficulthey should be paid at the end of 15 ties. We had an internal visitation of scarmonths. The object of this regulation was city, which was not only a cause of geneto relieve the bills from the difficulties under ral distress, but had the effect of enhancing. which they laboured in the American war, the public expences connected with the when the uncertainty of payment rendered feeding of our fleets and armies in a very them subject to a discount of from 121. to great degree indeed. In that year also, to181. per cent. This provision not being wards the close of it, we were menaced found sufficient, it was settled in 1796, with a confederacy of the Northern Powers, that they should be paid at three months. who had assumed the character of hostiThis regulation did away the discount, and lity to us on points essential to the honour was the means of saving many millions to and safety of our empire. Great exertions the nation. It was intended not to pre- became necessary in consequence, for the vent the issue of the bills, but to remedy equipment of our fleet; and the services the depreciation of the paper, and to faci- of the noble lord, then at the head of the litate the public service. It happened marine department (earl Spencer) on the that some of these bills could not be paid occasion, would ever be remembered with at the end of the three months, from causes gratitude. The consequence, however, was which the committee about to be appoint- great difficulty, and a great increase of ed would enquire into, without breaking cost in most articles of naval stores. The in on the money reserved for the expences of the dock-yards, wages, and other expences, an immediate fund for which was indispensable. It was necessary, therefore, to issue fresh bills to those of the former holders, who were willing to accept them as a substitute, and to raise money on the credit of others for those who insisted on payment. This amounted to nothing at the utmost with respect to the holder than the payment at six months of what was before paid at fifteen. The money being raised for the purpose of paying bills issued for naval purposes, was, bonâ fide, ap-larly, began in Oct. 1800, and ended in plied to naval services, and fairly accounted for to parliament as such. The hon. and learned gent. on this ground supposed a fictitious account, calculated to destroy the credit of all documents laid before parliament from the public offices. He supposed the documents purported that the bills were for one service, while the committee would find they were for another. There was no list of the particular application of the sums of money voted for naval services laid before the house, only an account of the collective amount of the sum granted, stating that it was applied to naval services. It was to be supposed, however, from the professional habits of the hon. and learned gent. that he would not lightly prefer a charge of such a serious violation of the law; and therefore it was to be expected, that from VOL. V. increase in cost was not less than from 40 to 80 per cent. This expence did not go on as the hon. and learned gent, supposed, from March 1800 to May 1802. For the latter part of this period, he was not responsible, but he was willing to take the responsibility upon him. The hon. and learned gent. had fallen into a mistake on this point; and from the manner in which the report adverted to it; there was reason to think the commissioners themselves had made a similar mistake. The issues the hon. and learned gent. noticed so particu March 1801. They ended as soon as the loan for that year afforded means of making arrangements for the payment of them. The other issue began in Sept. 1801; the difficulties continued to the spring of 1802. The preliminaries of the peace had been negotiated in the early part of this period, but the definitive treaty was not concluded till near the end of it. No loan could be made while the price of stocks fluctuated in the uncertainty between the two periods, so as to leave no room for a satisfactory bargain. As soon as the loan afforded the means of an arrangement, it was made, and the issue had not been since recurred to. He thought it right, even in the present stage of the business, to offer this explanation. He wished for the enquiry, and he was sure it would be proved F |