them, imperfect interpreters and commentators) Judge Blackstone and others, who all agreed as to the full right of the people to be perfectly represented in Parliament. (Hear, hear!)-If Magna Charta was not quite obsolete, the argument of an hon. Member (Mr. Elliot), that because the people gained one part of their rights, they might be tempted to ask for others, would not much avail his cause. He knew well that he among others had been represented as a reformer, as a person belonging to a class who, whenever they met, were sure to differ; yet it remained to be shewn that their differences, which were public, were more bitter or incurable than the misunderstandings of those who were engaged in dividing the public money among themselves. The hon. gentleman who had just sat down, had indeed cut the argument short, because, according to his doctrine, the less the people were represented the better.-(Hear, hear!)-This position, with his usual manliness of character, and freedom of declaration, the honourable Member had frankly declared as his opinion, that it was not the corruption of Parliament, that it was not the influence of the Executive Government which was the origin of all our calamities and dangers, but that it was the mischievous disposition and pliant susceptibilities of the country itself. Had they forgotten entirely the history of their country, and those parts of its annals, when Parliament had achieved its fame and established its privileges and dignity? Had they forgotten the fate that attended the contempt with which Richard II. treated Parliamentary authority? Notwithstanding the inconsistencies in the speech of the honourable Member (Mr. Ward) who, condemning in the strangest manner the expedition to Walcheren, was yet disposed to favour the principles and practices which saved its authors, he confessed that however he might have been innocently or malignantly branded with the title of a radical reformer, he should always be happy to concur in carrying any measure which should have for its object an improvement in the representation of the people.(Hear, hear!)Doubtless the right honourable gentlemen on the other side, who entertained so high an opinion of the necessity of influence, had they lived in earlier times, would have opposed the Reformation, and have been as hostile to the Revolution as to the present question. No doubt they, as strict Tories, would have opposed the Septennial Act (Hear, hear !)— an Act against which, at least one person, the Earl of De vonshire, had then the virtue to protest. What then was

the general cause of Reform, but a cause supported by a Chatham, a Pitt, and a Fox, as a cause inseparable from the salvation of the country?-(hear, hear!)-With respect to the argument of one relaxation necessarily leading to another, it was indeed unworthy of enlightened statesmen, befitting rather the Divan of Constantinople, or the Senate of Buonaparte.-The honourable baronet then proceeded, with considerable animation, to repel the insinuations of the honourable Members (Messrs. Elliot and Ward), and concluded by expressing his perfect concurrence with the motion.

Lord Milton said, the honourable baronet who spoke before him, had referred the House to what he called the old Constitution of the country, without specifying the precise period when that Constitution might be said to exist. The honourable baronet proposed to give a discretionary power to the King, to fix upon such boroughs as ought to be represented in Parliament. Good God! Could any thing be devised more calculated to enslave the country, than to put in the bands of the King or his Ministers the power of sending to this or that borough, as might suit their inclination, to return Members to the House? It had been said that time had made many inroads into the system of representation of the country; that many boroughs of great wealth and population in ancient times, were now in a very different state. It was very true, that many boroughs, formerly wealthy, were now reduced to a comparatively insignificant state; but it ought also to be taken into consideration, that many boroughs of small consequence formerly, had now become wealthy and populous places-(hear, from the Ministerial benches). He would mention Liverpool as one of these places. He would maintain that there was no description of people in this country who were not represented in the Legislature of this country. With all his partiality for country gentlemen, and he confessed all his prejudices and partialities were in their favour, he believed a great injury would be done to the House, if no other persons were to be returned to it. But it would seem, according to the conception of the honourable baronet, that the House of Commons, as now constituted, was nothing but a mass of corruption, or at least was extremely rotten. Now he wished to know what part of the Constitution was so rotten as the honourable baronet, and those who chose to maintain his opinions, were pleased to allege. He always wished to come to close quarters with those persons, because he had

always found when they were hard pushed they had really very few arguments to give.-(Iear, hear !)-He should conceive their artillery was principally directed against burgage tenure. If they can prove that this species of tenure ought to be abolished, he would go hand in hand with them in abolishing it. He would have gone hand in hand with them in the depriving Cricklade and Aylesbury of their elective franchise on any question relative to the abuses committed by particular places; but the plans of the gentlemen who took the opposite side of the question went on nothing but assumption. The immediate measure proposed was to give a right of election to copyholders. He allowed copyholders to be equally independent with freeholders; but what he contended for was, that copyholders never had a right by the ancient constitution of the country to any such elective franchise. If the reformers, then, could not shew that the communicating the elective franchise to copyholders would infuse some new virtue into the Constitution, he really could see no reason why they were now to be introduced. It was well known that this was the basest of all tenures; and yet these were the persons to whom the honourable baronet, who professed himself such a great lover of antiquity, was desirous of giving the right to vote. The reason why he opposed their plans was, because they were not calculated to reform, but to alter the Constitution. It had been said that the House of Commons were not unfrequently of a directly contrary opinion to that of the people; and the decision on the inquiry into the Walcheren Expedition was frequently adduced as an example in proof of that assertion. He believed that the immediate vote upon that occasion was really against the opinion of the people; but when all circumstances were taken into consideration, it would be found that the vote was such as, in the end, the people would have wished for. It had been said, that by the theory of the Constitution the House of Commons ought to represent the opinions of the people; but he was inclined to doubt whether it could ever be possible to procure a House of Commons that should at all times represent the people. Those who might entertain the same opinions with the people at the period of the election, might, in a very short period, if they were consistent and did not choose to sacrifice every opinion of their own to that of the multitude, happen to be of very different sentiments; so that however much they might be inclined to make the House the depo

sitory of the sentiments of the democracy, in the course of [COM. two or three sessions that identity of opinion would cease. Whether a septennial or a triennia! Parliament ought to have the preference, was a question not so easy to be resolved as might be imagined; but he conjured the House not, for the sake of any ideal advantages, to alter the Constitution of the country. Much had been said against the franchises of such boroughs as Helstone and Old Sarum; but it ought to be recollected that these very boroughs were instrumental in procuring to the country the Bill of Rights, under which it had derived such blessings. Upon the whole he thought the House ought to pause before touching with sacrilegious bands, an institution that had been raised by the wisdom of their ancestors.

Sir Samuel Romilly said, this subject had been already so often discussed, that it was almost presumption for any person to imagine that he could throw any new light upon it. He confessed he was a little astonished at the manner in which the question had been discussed that night. A noble lord (Lord Milton) had expressed himself anxious to have an opportunity of coming to close quarters with the advocates for Parliamentary Reform. Good God! Did the noble lord really think it would be so easy to drive such men as Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt into a corner? He for his part confessed that he had long felt the necessity of a Parliamentary Reform, for the sake of withstanding the influence of the Crown; and every thing he had witnessed since he came into Parliament, had served to strengthen him in that opinion. It was necessary, in his opinion, that something ought to be done; and it was more incumbent upon this Parliament to do something more than any former Parliament, because they would not leave the Constitution in the same state in which they found it. The Act of the 49th of the King, would materially increase the influence of the Crown in the next Parliament. Crown a monopoly of all those places which were at present It would give the open to all parties. This was no doubt by no means contemplated by all the majority who passed the Bill; but that the Bill would have this effect, no man who considered the matter fairly, and laid his hand to his heart, would venture to deny. He believed that the Bill had already produced its effect, and that many of the votes of the House might be now traced to it. An honourable friend (we believe Mr. Ward) had deprecated the choosing such a period of prosperity as the present for entering on Parliament

ary

Reform. This prosperity, he should think, was not so evident as his honourable friend seemed to suppose. A nation groaning under the weight of taxes, a distressed trade, and an access of paper money, could hardly be said to be in a prosperous state. This argument had always been applied to every Reform under every species of Government. He remembered that Lord Clarendon stated, that the country never enjoyed such prosperity as in 1640, when it was suffering under taxes levied without authority, and under the most arbitrary decisions which ever disgraced Courts of Judicature. He thought copyholders having an equal security in their property with freeholders, were equally entitled to the right of voting.

Mr. Davies Gildy observed, that the advocates of Reform were always referring to a period of undefined purity in the representation of this country. When, he would ask, did it exist?-Did gentlemen suppose that, by making the Constitution more democratic, it would be more perfect? Was ever any country of great extent governed for any length of time by a democratic assembly? Such an assembly was generally the pander of the basest passions of the people. He was against any alterations in the Constitution. He might be asked if the representation of Old Sarum, and some other places, was what it ought to be? He would ask in return, if the representation of the city where they were now assembled was what it ought to be? Temperate Reform would not give satisfaction to the Reformers.

Mr. Gooch said, the honourable baronet (Sir F. Burdett) ought not to judge of the sentiments of the people of England, from the specimen he met with at the Crown and Anchor tavern.

Mr. Whitbread had always supported the cause of Parliamentary Reform, and he believed he always would continue to support it, for he was more and more confirmed in his opinion of its necessity from day to day, and from hour to hour. He was somewhat astonished that the honourable Member for Suffolk (Mr. Gooch) should presume the opinions of his neighbours in that county were to be looked upon as a more fair criterion of the ral sentiments of the country, than those of the persons whom the honourable baronet meets in a place where all the intelligence of the country was generally supposed to be assembled.

Mr. Gooch explained.

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