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395 member of that House, as one of the country, and on behalf of the manufacturing and commercial interests, he now thanked them for the frank and manly conduct which they had pursued (hear). Nothing was farther from his intention than the idea of indulging any thing like a mistaken triumph on the present occasion; and it was an observation which best came from his side of the House, that when a Government got entangled in a series of measures, of the policy of which even they themselves were not convinced, he was persuaded that the fear of an ill-judged triumph on the part of their usual opponents, sometimes operated as a reason for their not retracing their steps. He trusted that the present repeal would have the effect of restoring the trade and manufactures of the country; that the measure would produce a proper conciliatory effect on the American councils, and would be met by that Government with a corresponding disposition. On this subject he entertained no doubt; but if the case should be otherwise, he was the last man in the country who would say that our Govern ment ought not to be supported-(Hear, hear!) He trusted that the negociations on foot between the two countries would now proceed under the most favourable auspices.

Lord Castlereagh declared that it would always afford himself and his colleagues the greatest gratification to learn that Government had been able to conduct itself in a way that was satisfactory to gentlemen opposite, and also, he trusted, to the country at large. He felt obliged to the honourable and learned gentleman for the handsome terms in, which be had expressed himself, and at the same time must be allowed to add, that the measure, as now adopted, was not entirely foreign to the mode in which it was originally intended to operate. A conditional suspension of the Orders in Council certainly was at first thought of; but as it was stated from most respectable quarters in that House, that the word "suspension" was not to be found in any of the restriction laws of America, and that the obligation on her, to repeal her measure of Non-Intercourse, might not be found so strong, unless, a revocation took place, Government thought that the decision of America ought not to be left a matter of risk, and therefore at once recalled the Orders in Council-(hear!). Still, in one sense, the measure might be called a suspension, inasmuch as it would remain in the power of this country to resume the Orders, provided the American Government thought proper to re

tract its declarations. At the same time, in the spirit of conciliation, Government had thought proper to give the repeal a retrospective operation, to take date from the moment when the French decree of recall was first presented to them.

Mr. Baring thought that the measure now so happily announced was calculated to produce the most salutary effects. Government, it appeared to him, had acted with the greatest propriety and good sense; for as the Orders in Council were to be given up, it was infinitely better to do it at once liberally and unconditionally. He believed that the commercial, manufactaring, and every other interest in the country would derive the greatest benefit from this step; and he had now to express the great obligations which the country owed to the indefatigable exertions of his honourable and learned friend throughout the whole of the inquiry; and to the almost unequalled ability with which he bad conducted it to this satisfactory conclusion-hear, hear!). With regard to the American Government, he thought that they at least ought to be satisfied with this arrangement; and he had no doubt that they would be so in reality, nor attempt now to impose any terms inconsistent with their former declarations, or the honour of England.

Sir F. Burdett concurred in the general opinion, of the wisdom which the Prince Regent's Government had displayed on the present occasion. But there was one point to which he wished again to call their attention, because it was one which, perhaps, more than any other, was likely to prevent or interrupt harmony with America-he meant the impressment of American seamen. The other day he had mentioned the impressment of one Williams, who, he understood, was really an American seaman, and he should be glad to know whether his case had been inquired

into.

Lord Castlereagh wished to observe, that in the present stage of the negociations with America the most active step had been taken to put an end to this source of misunderstanding. Our Ambassador had asked a list of all persons in our navy, who were supposed to be American seamen, and when that list was procured, their cases would be forthwith in quired into.

Mr. Ponsonby entertained very little doubt, that the order now issued would be perfectly satisfactory to America; but

should she think proper to rise in her demands to what was unreasonable and unjust, no man would be more forward than himself to support the rights and interests of this Country-(Hear!).

Mr. Whitbread had no question that this measure, now so happily adopted, would prevent the breaking out of hostilities with America. He would now only observe, that one could not contemplate the happiness and delight which its prospect had diffused among the manufacturing districts of the country, without congratulating the House and the country on the occasion; and they would soon have the satisfaction of going to their several homes, and every where finding the people employed, industrious and satisfied.(Hear, hear!). It was unnecessary for him to pass any eulogy on the manner in which his honourable friend has conducted himself through the whole of the inquiry; that conduct had been witnessed by the House itself. He hoped that concord with America would be speedily restored; and together with it, in the course of a very few months, an attempt would be made by Ministers to restore peace with France, which could not fail to be attended with the greatest blessings to the country, and which he believed had hardly yet been gone about in the spirit of conciliation, in any instance.

The order of the day for the call of the House on Thursday was then discharged.

TITHES IN IRELAND.

Mr. Parnell rose to make his promised motion on this subject. He began by observing, that no fewer than nine counties had expressed, either by petitions, or through grand juries, the necessity of some alteration in the Tithe system of Ireland. He was confident that a very general conviction prevailed of its being a great grievance on the lower orders of that conntry, and that the Clergy themselves would be glad of some commutation. The magnitude of the evil was admitted by the late Mr. Perceval himself, who had projected a Bill for an alteration in the tithe system, but who dropped it in consequence of supposed difficulties. In Mr. Pitt's speech on the Union, that im portant authority confessed that tithes were a great practical evil in Ireland; and from the zeal with which that speech was circulated by the noble lord opposite, it was reasonable to expect that some arrangement as to tithes

would have been the consequence of a Legislative Union. The tithe system was by no means the same in England as in Ireland. In the first place, the people who paid tithes here, were of the same religion as the clergy to whom they were paid. In Ireland the proportion of Protestants to the rest of the population was as 1 to 10, computing the population, according to Bushe, Chalmers, and Newenham, to be five millions. With this extraordinary fact before the House, it was very much to the credit of the Catholics, that they were not the petitioners against the tithe system. . Their policy was not to give offence, or to embarrass their great cause, by meddling with the affairs of the Church. The next difference between the tithe system here and in Ireland, was the unsettled rates in the last. There was, in fact, no uniform system through the different counties; a great deal was left to the caprice of individuals in levying them, and much of the oppression under which the landholder laboured was to be traced to this cause. The next difference was the collection. In England the farmer had recourse to a jury, in case of dispute with the clergyman; in Ireland, all such disputes were settled by citations before an ecclesiastical jurisdiction. The honourable gentleman then quoted the case of a Mr. Battersby, a clergyman, who made a new demand, of what he called family-money in his parish, and actually sold the kitchen-pots of a poor cottager for this family-money. A court of justice, however, afterwards disallowed the clergyman's claim, and proved how unsettled was the system on which he acted: every consideration, in fact, which he could give to the subject, convinced him more and more, how necessary it was to relieve the landbolder in Ireland from the pressure of this system. His plan was to appoint Commissioners to compute the value of the tithes throughout Ireland, and then to substitute a county land-tax for them until lands could be obtained for the clergy. He would therefore move," that a Committee be appointed, early in the next session, to take into consideration the state of the law with respect to tithes in Ireland."

Mr. Pole had examined with attention all the plans which had been proposed, but could find no practical remedy for the evil complained of. The object was, to relieve the peasantry of Ireland; but in every plan he had yet seen, their burthens would be increased, instead of diminished. An acreable tax upon tilled ground would make the owners

of poor ground pay as much as the owners of the most fertile ground and the finest crops. If any commutation was to go upon the principle of an absolute tenth of the value of the produce, the farmers must lose, as they do not now pay in the proportion of 1-20th all over the kingdom. He traced the sufferings of the poor, not to the tithes, nor to the proprietors of the land, but to the jobbers, or landpirates, as they were often called in Ireland, who took the land from some middle man, to divide it into allotments among the poor, who had thus three or four rents to pay. It was to be observed, that in Ireland there was no tithe of agistment upon pasture ground; and they did not pay tithes in one-half of the kingdom. The people of Ireland were then, not, in fact, so much burthened with tithes as in this country. He was not able to discover any practical remedy for the evil complained of.

Sir John Newport contended, that great oppressions were endured by the poor of Ireland, in consequence of the operation of the system of tithes. He stated, from a letter which be had received, a strong prima facie case of oppression, in the conduct of Mr. Morgan, a clergyman in the county of Wexford. This man, when rector of the parish of Newton Barry, was stated to have been so oppressive, that the parish was turned almost entirely from tillage, for which it was naturally fit, to pasture, which is tithe-free in Ireland. This one instance, if proved, would shew that it was in the power of a few clergymen of his description, not only to commit infinite oppression on the poor, but to injure the agriculture of the country.

Lord Castlereagh admitted that individual cases of oppression must exist under any administration of law; but he thought it was not fair in the honourable baronet to hold up in this manner, to public indignation, an individual who was not there to answer for himself, and who, upon examination of the case, might possibly be found to have acted in a manner different from the information which the honourable baronet had received. He thought it was incumbent upon those, who felt an evil to be of sufficient magnitude to state to Parliament, to propose some remedy for it. Although, in some cases of the greatest magnitude, like the question of last night, Parliament might take it upon itself to find the remedies; yet, in all ordinary cases of legislation, it was for the gentleman who stated the evil to propose the remedy. He thought that was the course

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