ness in the extreme, if, when they arrived at a state of strength and maturity, to be no longer in want of our aid, they were to be at liberty entirely to throw off all dependence, and dif claim all connexion with the parent-ftate, and, by fo doing, establish their own greatnefs on the ruin of the mother-country. It was upon thefe principles that he had fupported the war, in which he had but one object, revenue. These princi-. ples were now become merely matter of fpeculation; fuch as they were, however, he fhould ever retain them: he there-' fore did not mean by his vote of that day to abandon them; but meant to confider the queftion of expediency, which must decide upon the war. He deplored the difgrace brought not upon our arms, but on our counfels, by the rafh undigested expedition from Canada. He lamented the little protection given to our commerce, the weight of infurance, the ftate of our public credit; to thefe circumftances he muft yield; but that he hoped the day of retribution would come, when minifters might be called to a fevere account for the infamy which they have brought upon this country, by their conduct of a war, into which they had deceived the country, by promifes of a revenue which they now abandoned. He obferved, that the noble Lord at the head of the treafury, had informed the House, that he would, in a few days, propofe to its confideration a plan of conciliation. He fincerely wifhed it might fucceed; but he had every reafon in the world to believe it would not. A previous confidence between the parties was the very bafis of every species of treaty-making. The noble Lord himself would not venture to fay, that was the cafe between minifters and the prefent governing powers in America. It was well known, that every poffible occafion had been given by the prefent adminiftration, to fix in the breafts of the people of America, and their leaders, the most rooted hatred and inveterate rancour, Under fuch circumftances of difappointment and difgrace on one fide, and fuch provocations on the other, he would appeal to the candour of those whofe difpo-' fitions might carry them to the greateft lengths, in point of expectation, whether there was the moft diftant profpect of any good to arife from a treaty, when conducted by men on the part of Great Britain, who were univerfally execrated from one end of the North American continent to the other-Men, whofe beft and fincereft intentions would be only interpreted as lures to enfnare and betray. He was ready to give the noble Lord all poffible credit for his candour; but whatever his intentions may be, he feared that the effect of his proposed plan, partly from the reasons just mentioned, and partly from

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the nature of the plan itself, would be, not to be accepted of by America; which would furnish minifters with an apology to try the experiment of one more fatal and difgraceful campaign; after which, he would venture to predict, that all further attempts to fubdue or treat with America, would be at an end, and that country irretrievably loft for ever to this

He concluded in nearly the following words: The moment is critical. I do not think, notwithstanding all that has happened, but the colonies may, by proper measures, be yet brought back to a state of conftitutional obedience; and that we may once more recover their affections. If there be a man, who has ferved this nation with honour to himself, and glory to his country; if there be a man, who has carried the arms of Britain triumphant to every quarter of the globe, and that beyond the most fanguine expectations of the people; if there be a man of whom the houfe of Bourbon ftands more peculiarly in awe; if there be a man in this country, who unites the confidence of England and America, is not he the proper person to treat with America, and not those who have uniformly deceived or oppreffed them? There is not one prefent, who is ignorant of the perfon to whom I allude, You all know that I mean a noble and near relation: [Lord Chatham.] He is the man whom his Majefty ought to call to his councils, because the Americans revere him, and the unbiaffed part of the nation would moft cheerfully trust their dearest interests with him. I know the little paltry infinua tions which may be thrown out against the language I now hold; and can only fay to them, that I defpife them as much as I fhall do any man capable of ufing them: and knowing that there is not the man nor the object in this country capable of making me crofs that board against my opinion, I trust that this Houfe will at least give me credit for the fincerity with which I deliver it; and if it shall be found, that it is to him to whom the nation looks forward for its falvation, it is a duty which I am bold to fay his Majefty owes to his people, to avail himself of fuch refpectable affiftance.

Lord North faid, as he never meant to negotiate away the rights of this country, to procure himself any temporary convenience; fo he never wifhed to encroach on those of Ame rica. His own private opinion never varied: but if his propofition fhould not meet with the approbation of the majority of that Houfe, or that it fhould undergo any alteration, in either event, he would gladly acquiefce. As to the particular favourable difpofition of America towards individuals or parties in that or the other Houfe, by every thing that had

yet

yet appeared, all men and all parties feemed equally ob÷ noxious to them; and whenever propofitions came to be made, he was inclined to believe the object of the colonies would not be who it was that made them, but whether they were fuch as answered their own expectations. For his part, he was ready and willing to refign the difagreeable task to whoever was thought better qualified, and was contented te accept of it. He wifhed as fincerely for pacification as any one perfon in either Houfe; and fo the end was obtained, it was a matter of no confequence to him by whom, or in what manner it was obtained. He then spoke to the question, and was against the motion, faying, that though he had approved of the purport of the motion, he could not agree to it while there remained so great a difference in the calculation, between the honourable gentleman who made it, and the noble Lord from whose particular office the papers came. If, therefore, the motion was not withdrawn till the difference in calculation, which was in the proportion of fixteen to one, was reconciled, he should move to report fome progrefs.

Mr. Burke remarked that the fentiments, opinions, promises, and assurances of the minifter, were conflantly in a regular, fucceffive, uniform ftate of contradiction to each other, in respect of every matter relative to the American measures and American war. On the prefent occafion, he rofe inftantly, he said, after the noble Lord [Lord North] left, if he deferred it only a few minutes longer, the noble Lord's memory might fail him.

Lord Ongley was against the motion, and declared himself to be against any measure of accommodation, fhört of compelling America, in the firft inftance, to acknowledge the fupreme right of Parliament.

Sir Richard Sutton spoke nearly to the fame purport, and expreffed his difapprobation of the refolution, as only tending to encourage our rebellious fubjects in America to refufe every reasonable plan of accommodation which minifters might think proper to offer them,

Lord Nugent was against the propofed refolution. He affirmed, on his confcience, he was fatisfied that minifters had pursued the best measures, though they had unhappily failed. As there was fo immenfe a difference between the accounts of the two honourable gentlemen [Mr. Fox and Lord Barrington] he could not fee, till that was fettled, how it was poffible for the debate to be continued. He faid, he disapproved of this inquiry from the beginning; and experience had taught him, that a multiplicity of papers ferved not to inform but to

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perplex; and related the following anecdote, in proof of his general affertion. The late King, foon after his acceffion, told Sir Robert Walpole, that he would himself see all papers of confidence, before any measures were taken upon them. Sir Robert was alarmed, and went to confult his brother Horace, what was best to be done. Horace feeing him so uneafy, laughed, and advised him to give the King more than he afked; "Give him all the papers, and I dare fay, he will foon have enough of them." Sir Robert took his advice, and carried him a cart full, telling his Majefty, that he had paid feveral extra clerks, to affift in getting more ready; and informed him further, that he believed, when the whole were copied, they would fill five carts more. The King told him, he need not get any more ready till he heard his further directions on the fubject; the confequence of which was, that Sir Robert never heard a fyllable more of papers from his Majefty as long as he remained in office. His Lordship concluded with moving, that the chairman fhould leave the chair, report fome progrefs, and defire leave to fit again.

Mr. T. Townshend replied, that the honourable gentleman's twelve refolutions did not amount to twelve cart-loads, nor did all the papers called for; but if the noble Lord who controverted the truth of fome of the refolutions [Lord Barrington] fent in papers of a different complexion to those he spoke from himfelf, and which he held in his hand, it was no wonder there were mistakes in the calculations, and just fuch miftakes too as the noble Lord pleafed. In the course of his fpeech, he mentioned that, to his knowledge, minifters had laft week fent leave of abfence to General Howe, who would doubtless be on his return home when the noble Lord's conciliatory propofition arrived in America.

Lord John Cavendish entreated the committee to turn its attention from trifles, and think feriously on the state of this country; and whether their properties in land and stocks were not now too nearly at ftake, not to fuggeft the moft alarming apprehenfions. The funds daily falling in value, commerce rapidly declining, in his opinion, were motives fufficient to roufe the nation to a proper fenfe of danger.

Mr. Ellis cenfured the inquiry, faid it could be productive of no good, and might of great mifchief; faid, that a fall of ftock, and fufpenfion of commerce in fome of its branches, were the ufual, nay the inevitable confequences of a state of war; but, independent of any other confideration, he should vote to adjourn the committee, and report fome progrefs, becaufe it was evident, that the honourable gentleman who

moved

moved the refolutions was miftaken in the calculations on which they were founded.

J

Colonel Barré, after maintaining the truth of the refolutions moved by his honourable friend, obferved on the propofition promifed by the noble Lord in the blue ribbon on Tuesday, that he expected no good from it, as the conduct of ministers had from the first of the American business been fhuffling (for it deferved no better name) both to this country and the colonies.

Mr. Fox infifted that 20,000 men had been loft, at leaft the greater part of them, to this country, though they were not all flain in battle; and he denied the noble Lord at the head of the war department to prove where 6000 of them, including prifoners or fick, were to be had; for that by the laft returns the British and foreign troops amounted to no more than 28,000, though we paid for 48,000 men.

Mr. Aubrey, after having fpoke to the question, in which he praised the conduct of the Americans, particularly their mode of making war, by which he fhewed the impoffibility of fuccefs by our arms, concluded with obferving, that all he fhould fay to the intended motion of reconciliation juft mentioned by the noble Lord [Lord North] was, that after the violent measures fo long carried on by that noble Lord, and his equally violent declarations of perfevering in them, until he had brought America proftrate at his feet, he could not but look upon that intended motion as a proof that the noble Lord thought fuccefs hopeless, and perfeverance impracticable.

General Conway replied to Lord Barrington, and faid, if his honourable friend had been mistaken, it must be because he was defignedly led aftray by the manner the office papers were made out. This, however, could not properly affect the truth of his other refolutions, though he had been mistaken in one or two; but he was convinced that every one of them was fubftantially right.

The Houfe divided; ayes, to report fome progrefs, 263:

noes, 149.

Adjourned to February 13.

February 13. Houfe in Committee of Supply.

Mr. Buller moved, that 781,911. be granted for the ordinary and extraordinary fervices of the navy for 1778. With refpect to the estimates of both thefe fervices, he said, that

they